AJ improves...super de duper - Page 2

#11 12-09-2005, 04:34 AM

Does everybody agree on the turn call?

#12 12-09-2005, 05:07 AM

i like bet/call, b/c i would rather have 1-2 bets going in here than either 0-1 (check/call) or 2-3 (cr).

Justin A · #13 12-09-2005, 05:09 AM

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i like bet/call, b/c i would rather have 1-2 bets going in here than either 0-1 (check/call) or 2-3 (cr).

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Yeah I like that.

Dazarath · #14 12-09-2005, 07:33 AM

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it is close but i like bet/call for the simple fact the straight will scare off a lot of his raises, you have to get one bet in, and a check raise isn't viable.

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This reasoning points toward bet/folding, not bet/calling.

As for me, I'd probably bet/call, unless you know the CO will not raise again with two pair hands like AJ/JT. I think an argument could be made for bet/folding though, if you have a really good read.

NLSoldier · #15 12-09-2005, 07:44 AM

i guess i just showed my support for dougie and didnt give my line other than over aim. fwiw i was in favor of bet call and didnt really think it was close.

private joker · #16 12-09-2005, 08:08 AM

For those of you advocating check-call, don't you think he'll check behind with KK/QQ a lot of the time, and that these hands are pretty much what he has a lot of the time? I'd like to hear more about why this isn't a value bet on the river, because I may be misplaying these type of hands.

Chief911 · #17 12-09-2005, 01:33 PM

Nice hand post.

But this really does not seem that close. He's rep'in a bigger pocket pair than J, or he gets WAY outta line vs. blind defenders. I think PP larger than JJ (Although TT and 99 seem possible). So you just hit your big two pair.

What beats you that plays the turn like this? JJ, TT, 88, Q9, and KQ. You beat AK, AT, A8, A9, KJ, QJ, AQ, KK, QQ, 99.

I think this is a pretty clear bet/call, because you hate life when he flips KK/QQ/KJ.

Nick

Danenania · #18 12-09-2005, 03:02 PM

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For those of you advocating check-call, don't you think he'll check behind with KK/QQ a lot of the time, and that these hands are pretty much what he has a lot of the time? I'd like to hear more about why this isn't a value bet on the river, because I may be misplaying these type of hands.

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Based on his play I think two pair or a set must be weighted higher than KK/QQ, but if he does have KK/QQ and has played it this aggressively it doesn't seem consistent for him to wimp and check the river when an Ace hits. I'm sure he will sometimes but I think it's not a very large portion of his range/actions that he has both played KK/QQ this fast and checks the river with it.

I also hate bet/call because when we call that raise we are basically just throwing a BB away. It MIGHT be profitable to call that raise if we do bet, though that's questionable, but I definitely think it's unprofitable to put ourselves in that position to begin with.

worm33 · #19 12-09-2005, 03:58 PM

Considering he raised from the CO I think he is more likely to have j10 or q9 than specificly qq kk. I think he has j10 a fair amount of the time. Does he check behind with j10? Ace is defintly a bad card for his hand. I think bet call is really the only play. You can't bet fold because he might raise j10 on the river again. Bet call seems about the only thing u can do.

gonores · #20 12-09-2005, 06:57 PM

I ended up check-calling, but I think the right play was bet/folding. I'll walk you through my logic.

The CO made me cry uncle on the turn. It had the feel of those sort of hands where two players have overpairs and it's a matter of figuring out how many bets you want to go with QQ after capping preflop and seeing a 522 flop. After calling CO's turn raise, I have absolutely no right to bet out on the river in this hand...I'm in call-down mode in his eyes....maybe I'll fold T9 or something like that...either way, I'm not showing aggression unless the river hit me.

Then the ace hits. Say I bet. He *knows* this ace helped me if I bet out. At this point, I think my hand becomes transparent. I guess I could have an AA that slowplayed preflop, but what other hand maxes the flop, bets the turn, just calls the raise on the turn, and then bets out on the river? Maybe a super-aggro KQ, but all in all, I think I garner calls from QQ, KK, KJ, QJ, and all 2 pair hands. I think he raises practically any hand that beats me. I can't really fathom him raising a hand like JT once more, because he's gonna puke if I 3bet.

I guess him raising the river with another AJ is a possibility, but I think that's the only hand I don't lose to that raises here.

I check-called because I knew I didn't have the discipline to fold to a raise here yesterday. I was running bad and I wanted to get to showdown. Upon reflection, check/calling was a mistake...I think I like it better than bet/call, but I think bet/fold is the play here, even in a big pot.

For the record, my check-call was "rewarded" by being shown TT here.