no fold 'em at higher limits (15-30, 20-40)

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
Test self against competitive challenge -- 30%
Sense of accomplishment from winning -- 10%

[/ QUOTE ]

even the 40-80 games aren't challenging in LA. u must play higher! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

but jokes aside, the only way to get real challenge is to play free money game with the best in the world for a title of best "Hold'em Player of the World", but i doubt most ppl care enough to play with you that way.

remember, money won IS the score in POKER.

Kenny

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
and 20/40 games arent that loose

totally disagree on that one. online and casino, every 15-20 game i see is loose.

[/ QUOTE ]

paradise 20 games used to be pretty tight, are the looser these days?

[andyfox]

All hobbies can get boring after a while. We start to feel that we've been there, done that. That's why many poker players move up in limits; the thrill is gone and the prospect of winning (or losing) great sums of money gets the adrenaline going again.

Don't play as often. Then it will be a treat when you do play, rather than an everday occurrence. If you want more of a competitive challenge, play mid-week during the day at the 30-60 game at Commerce. While some of the 15-30 and 20-40 games do indeed play loose, the skill level required to beat the game definitely increases as the stakes get higher.

Poker is not a hobby for intellectual stimulation.

[threeonefour]

Maybe you should stick with chess. I am an avid chess player myself and I personally play poker 90% for the money. If you are just looking for a challenge and a chance to test yourself I think Chess is a much better game. It is very stimulating and it deep, just like poker. But in the end money isn't a factor in chess. And if you don't care about making money I would think it might be good to play a game where there isn't the risk of losing money.

Based on what you say I think you sound more like a chess player. Maybe I am wrong. I haven't been playing poker as long as you. But I think money has to be a central focus in order for someone to be at the top of their game.

The reason I say this is because I have seen a lot of players move down two or three limits just for fun and make money but they often aren't getting the ROI that they should be. And its just because they aren't worried about losing much since its a trivial amount of money anyway. So they draw more when they shouldn't etc.

[TobDog]

Lou,

How are the games in the Greater Palm Springs area? Is poker growing there too, or is it 9-18 about as high as they go, haven't been out there in a while.

tobdog

[Blarg]

You're asking too much from poker. Your motives sound all mixed up.

You call it a "job," yet you want it to be less boring and aggravating and unhealthy. Hey, to most people, jobs ARE boring and aggravating and unhealthy! Suck it up! Or, as they say...there's the door, buddy! See ya in the funny papers!

You want it to be as satisfying as the job you already have? Well, I would like winning the Olympics to be easy, too, because I think I'd like to win a few events, but I don't get to change reality to fit my desires. Poker, once you've done it for a good long while and your game has leveled off in terms of how much better you're getting, is a grind, simple as that. What do you expect? Very, very few jobs aren't grinds either, no matter how exciting they start out. After a while even brain surgeons can't remember their patients and movie stars can't remember all their movies. Poker's excitement is not everlasting either.

What keeps most people going when it gets dull are either the sociability, the challenge, or the money. The money doesn't do it for you, and the sociability doesn't either. I don't blame you for the latter, as after a while it gets to be the same old faces -- and you don't choose the faces, either, so some of them can be real cussed jerks and there's nothing you can do about it.

But the challenge part is what throws me off about your post. You say challenge is important, but you sound like you aren't exactly cleaning up at the levels you're at but don't want to move up either -- that's the reading I and a few others on this thread got. Yet...doing EXACTLY one of those two things is precisely wherein the challenge lays. Beat the game you're in, or try new ones, tougher ones that fit your play style better or scare or excite you more. You have to make your own challenges, not wait for them to drop into your lap.

If you are afraid to move up or feel defeated by the loose games you feel forced to stay at, and aren't held to poker by the lure of the sociability and cash, perhaps you have reached your natural limits in your love for the game and need to move on, perhaps coming back for a visit once in a while. No shame in that; everyone likes different things, and you had the adventurousness and initiative to try poker on for size for a while and see how you liked it. Maybe now you know.

Either that, or you need to refocus where you find challenge in the game really to be. It sounds like there may be untapped depths to your skills and the game that you haven't plumbed yet. I assure you, thought, that very few of the pros grinding out their hours are any more thrilled to be at the table than you are, so don't expect mere grinding to ever have the ability to thrill you or anybody else.

If you are done with poker, though, like you said, it's unhealthy to sit around in a casino too long, and you might be overdue to try something healthier. Not sure that chess is much healthier myself, but....

Also, have you ever tried the game of Go? The Japanese and Chinese love that game, and it's just as deep as chess. To me it's much more interesting. Could make for some very nice variety.

After all that poker playing, too, maybe you should try something a little more physical for your next hobby or obsession or whatever. Tai-chi or something you can do that you can use to get in shape and keep mentally healthy too, and do well even when you're an old man.

Anyway, I'm not sure you've given poker a fair chance, but if you have, no big deal. There's a big wide world out there and nobody has to like everything, be good at everything, or hang around where he feels uncomfortable. If poker's not for you, you haven't experienced a loss; you've had an adventure and explored part of the big, wild, crazy world.

[Sparks]

[ QUOTE ]
In short, my experience is that even at limits as high as 15-30 and 20-40 (the largest I feel comfortable playing in), the games all play like 1-2 no-fold 'em games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure? Try the 10-20 at the Bike, weekdays. There are always at least a couple props playing, and the other night, there were six at the table. I find that game to be pretty darn tough, and on a regular basis.

Sparks

[TimTimSalabim]

[ QUOTE ]
"Hey, I have a great job for you. It makes pretty work wages, maybe not as much as your career, but pretty good. There's only a few caveats. First, you have to sit in an uncomfortable chair all day. Also, your 'job' will be incredibly boring and extremely frustrating. There will be little intellectual challenge in it, and it will be about as exciting as doing dishes. Not only that, your fluctuations in income will be great (like all poker) and not steady. You won't be among friends most of the time; in fact, most of the people you will have contempt for. It won't be too relaxing and probably damaging to your health. But you will definitely make a lot of money."

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm trying to figure out how this is different from most 9-5 jobs. The only thing I can find is the fluctuating income part [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

Yup, sounds like everyday life -- or better -- for probably well over 95% of people on earth.

[driller]

Just took a very unscientific look with my poker tracker at pp 30-60, 15-30, and 3-6, the limits where I have the most players. I chose a table at random and put the players in the game time window. Results:

30-60 v$ip = 20% (table average)
15-30 v$ip = 26%
3-6 v$ip = 19%

This seems to confirm my gut feeling that some of the 3-6 games are as tight if not tighter than the 15-30 games. Again these results might be way off since only one table of each was chosen. I know the 30-60 game is much tighter than either of the other two.