JJ in the SB -- you'll hate this line

[arod15]

I read this than i threw up. Than i read it again and i threw up again and got mad cow disease. I cant imagine not 3 betting it PF.

[TheHip41]

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to explain your thought process to us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop, I suck

Flop, I suck

Next hand.

Even if this was a NL hand, I don't understand the flop fold. You'd think your mentality would be looking for an "all in" button and not the "fold" button.

[gopnik]

I do hate it. MP2 is making a continuation bet and MP3 raises his draw/smaller pp/piece of the flop.
Why did you fold?

[ QUOTE ]

Weak-tight thinking. I am not loving those cards, esp an A, against this crowd, but by no means are you automatically beat on say a Q high board. Furthermore, you will flop an overpair a subtantial portion of the time (half?). And sometimes overs will fall with a J. Anyway, you're putting in 1/6th of the money for a hand that will win well over 1/6th of the time (maybe 45/50%?). Huge profit there, don't pass up on it. All those times your opponents miss the flop, you gain bigtime. And that will be often.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just a fantastic post. Concepts straight out of SSHE, which is the first book you should read over and over again if you are a NL player but you want to learn limit.

[Entity]

You're going to flop a set or an overpair 48% of the time. The raise came in from late position. People who suck coldcalled the raise. You've got a boatload of equity, and need to 3-bet if you enjoy making money in LHE.

As is, check-3bet the flop. Your hand is severely underrepresented and is most likely the best hand.

Rob

[KDawgCometh]

there was no need to include any of the other action after your bad fold. I have no problem with PF, but, this is the perfect flop for you to CR three bet, this is why we only called PF. By doing a CR three bet we can blow out the field and get it HU. I don't know what kind of flop you were looking for other then flopping a set

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]
Not reraising out of the small blind may be standard in no limit for those sorts of reasons. It's not in limit. We three-bet JJ out of the blinds usually.

[/ QUOTE ]


here is a case where I will disagree. One major problem for people is putting in too much money PF being OOP. This hand is actually a good case for calling and working post flop. There can be pot manipulation in Limit, most of the time its not a good thing, but here it is. If hero is OTB, a three bet into a field is smart due to position. All we are doing is swelling the pot PF and we will be forced due to pot size to see at least the turn

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not reraising out of the small blind may be standard in no limit for those sorts of reasons. It's not in limit. We three-bet JJ out of the blinds usually.

[/ QUOTE ]


here is a case where I will disagree. One major problem for people is putting in too much money PF being OOP. This hand is actually a good case for calling and working post flop. There can be pot manipulation in Limit, most of the time its not a good thing, but here it is. If hero is OTB, a three bet into a field is smart due to position. All we are doing is swelling the pot PF and we will be forced due to pot size to see at least the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

With a late position raise and two awesome! coldcallers, you're going to be losing a lot more by calling and "keeping the pot small" to exascerbate their postflop errors than you will by exploiting their already sizable preflop errors. Raise it up.

Rob

Good post!! I agree! If you had to play this pre-flop scenario over 1,000 times . . . on average you make more money with the 3-bet.