"If you don't like it, leave"

[hetron]

[ QUOTE ]
True, but that more reflects the the US is a nation based on a governmental concept as opposed to an ethnicity.

In other words, since the US is a nation of immigrants, our shared national identity is more one of a governmental concept, rather than an ethnic one. The people are accusing others of not being true to what they define as our core being.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with the concept behind the US being a governmental one. I think it is more along the lines of thinking that it is a great meritocracy- in other words, those who work hard and are willing to sublimate completely into Americana will achieve "the American dream", so to speak. If you are perceived as unwilling to work hard for your piece of the pie, or not willing to sublimate to the extent that certain folks want you to, you are viewed as "un-American".

I obviously don't have a problem with people working hard or trying to fit in with American culture. But the hypersensitivity to anyone who even APPEARS to not fall into line with the mainstream political thinking of the times (look no further than Dr. Wogga's posts if you need proof of what I am saying) is something that is difficult to find in too many other cultures worldwide, whether they be homogenous or heterogenous.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I disagree with the concept behind the US being a governmental one. I think it is more along the lines of thinking that it is a great meritocracy

Well, a free country is a meritocracy to a certain extent. But that wasn't my point. I meant defined as a nation by governmental concept as opposed to defined as a nation by ethnicity.

those who work hard and are willing to sublimate completely into Americana will achieve "the American dream", so to speak.

I disgree completely. The US seems to me to be a place where you can "do your own thing" and succeed. I'm not sure I know what "sublimate completely into Americana" means.

Regardless, this country is a pretty damn heterogenous place. Besides, there's little difference in you saying "bozo-in-chief" and your adversary saying "if you don't like it, leave." You're both exercising your right to free speech. What you say offends him, what he says offends you. There is no right to not be offended by other people's opinions.

[MMMMMM]

"You also have to understand that there is a much wider spectrum of political debate in europe than here in the US. Even from my perspective, the Democrats and Republicans look more like different wings of the same political party than two distinct entities."

Quite right, and it seems the Europeans are on average a lot slower to learn the lessons of history than are the Americans. For instance, many in European countries still believe in Communism (naturally, primarily in those countries which never experienced it;-) I mean come on how willfully stupid can these present-day European Communists be. And I do say willfully because I think it takes a special effort to believe in such things today.

[Dr Wogga]

.....stop crying, I'm warming you a bottle as I write this. If you spend so much time in france and like it, why don't you stay there. You could tell all the french america-haters you're with them - and other than getting spit on from time to time, you'd probably like it there a lot better. Waaaaaa, waaaaaa

[hetron]

[ QUOTE ]
.....stop crying, I'm warming you a bottle as I write this. If you spend so much time in france and like it, why don't you stay there. You could tell all the french america-haters you're with them - and other than getting spit on from time to time, you'd probably like it there a lot better. Waaaaaa, waaaaaa

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm not interested in living in France. I was thinking I could ship your ass there so that you might be able to get a different perspective on things. You can get schooled on different political views, find out why they feel the way they do. Who knows? You might actually come back less ignorant.

Actually that sounds like a great idea. Why not just ship Wogga, Limbaugh, and Hannity over to France (or any other foreign country for that matter) and let them see different countries, different political and social systems, different aspects of life in general. Who knows, they might actually come back less ignorant.

[Dr Wogga]

.....to bonus whores.com. Brad and i could have fun there, doing manly hetero things to those sluts

[hetron]

bonus whore is much more likely to be 53 year old bald guy from Pittsburgh looking for an $100 bonus on Party Poker than any sort of mid 20's platinum blonde (advertising is SOO misleading), I hope the only "manly hetero" things you are going to do with them are drink and play cards.

[Dr Wogga]

.....still, it would be great to nail a REAL hoe tyat's not a x-dresser - don't you think

[Cyrus]

When a dozen threads ago Utah had disputed that conservatives lie about liberals in America, the first big lie that actually came into my mind was the perennial and blatant conservative lie about liberals being less patriotic than conservatives.

I was about to start a thread in order to demonstrate to dear Utah the inherent problem in that basic conservative position (a.k.a. a lie) but I was too lazy to type up anything more than chicken hawk at the time.

--Cyrus

PS : Those physicals from Dubya's stint in the "American military" came back yet? Just askin'.

[Utah]

Good to see that you are still chewing on that crayon.....

I would love to tangle with you now as I do enjoy your wit. But alas, no time for the next couple of days.

Of course, I could not hold back a few comments towards you as you provide such a target rich environment:

1) You still need to go to dictionary.com or some equivalent and look up the word lie. Grand generalizations about conservative ideas are simply not lies. So far, you have provided only 2 examples of potential lies: 1) Aircraft carrier - a minor lie that I agreed with you and in fact had mentioned before you even brought it up and 2) Bush Speech about Uranium - while it might be a lie, and a whopper at that, it is still very much in dispute and you provided none of the backup I requested to prove your point.

the first big lie that actually came into my mind was the perennial and blatant conservative lie about liberals being less patriotic than conservatives

This is clearly an opinion. Please tell me sir, how is this a lie?

2) I personally don't think liberals are less patriotic that Republicans. I don't think it is a liberal or conservative thing. What the heck does patriotic mean anyway?

I certainly don't think people disagreeing with the war, the direction of the country, etc. is unpatriotic (for lack of a better word). Heck, one could consider such actions extremely patriotic as they are trying to shape and better this country. To me, we might disagree greatly on the course we should take, but it is all about bettering the country and moving the ball forward. Under that vein, I have zero problems with those who believe in communism or some other form of government if they truly share the same end goal.

That being said, I do think there is a group out there (the Algers of the world) that has nothing but utter contempt for their country and they would like to see it fail. I think this group secretly likes seeing terrrorists kill U.S. soldiers and they like seeing the U.S. "get its due". These people have no desire to advance U.S. interests and they simply dispise where they live. To those people I would say - "well, it you don't like it hear. Go somewhere else." Common sense to me. If you don't want to help and dont like us, we don't want you (although we will tolerate you) and you obviously don't want us. Why stay?

btw - again, I am not a conservative or a Bush supporter. Closest would probably be libertarian.