What determines whether you a pro / semi pro player?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I believe every time *I've* answered this I've said you're a pro if it's your "primary" source of income. But I think the best answer is you're a pro if that's what it says on your tax return.

[AleoMagus]

[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]No offense intended about the 'college kid' comment, as I am hardly more than college kid myself (or maybe I just like to think so). I'm 28 and am also ex-military (Canadian).

Still, I'd be inclined to continue thinking that $50/hr is an unrealistic expectation at this stage.

Make no mistake about what I am saying here. It's not that I don't think you can make $50/hr, but I think it's gonna take a lot more time in order to say that with confidence and I definitely think it's gonna take a lot more time to start describing that income as 'semi-pro' poker earnings.

I'll explain a bit. If you have only played 70 $50+5 sngs at this point and you play 2 at a time averaging 45 min/sng, that would mean you are basing this claim on... about 25-30 hrs of play.

Given the statement that you made about putting in an average of 11 hrs/week, this is less than 3 weeks. It's hard to say that you make 2200/mo on poker when you have played at this level for less than a month. I suspect that you have already made over 2200 last month already as you said that you are running well, but the point rests on the time, not the money.

Now I know what you are thinking. But what about the 300ish 30+3 prior to that? 37 bucks an hour there has to count for something. Sure, it does, but it's still not a terribly long time. 300 samples is a pretty good indication that you can beat the game and it's even a pretty good indication that you can beat it for a lot. But it is only a few months. Like I said, you seem to have gone through the paces, but it's still a little quick as far as sng play is concerned.

I just think caution is in order. Give it some more time.

Now I'm not saying that you shouldn't move up to the $100 games, and frankly, who am I to be giving advice anyways? You seem to be playing above my head so perhaps these questions are better answered by our higher limit players.

And who knows? Maybe if I threw caution to the wind now and then I'd be moving up faster myself?

I guess all I'm saying is that when running well, it's easy to get excited about poker in ways that skew your perception.

Suppose for example you are making $50/hr and will continue to do so for the next couple years. It might seem like you have no desire to expand your repertoire now, but that might be because you are currently making money. A lot of money actually.

If you make a 'supplementary income' of 2000+ each month for too long, you are really gonna miss it if it dries up. You say that you are saving, and that is good. Treat that money like it is not even there and don't inflate your lifestyle too much until you are sure that you can maintain it.

And for goodness sake, build a separate bankroll and keep letting it grow no matter how big it gets. One day, you might find that you NEED to expand your repertoire and you will be glad to have that cushion when you do.

Oh well. Keep us informed about your progress. And post a lot more. This forum needs new life and someone playing at your level should really be contributing. It's scary how many people are blindly following the advice of Partypoker 10+1 experts. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Regards
Brad S

[HC5831]

No offense taken. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] I only mentioned how old I was and some of what I've done to show that I am not a snot nosed kid right out of high school.

I hear exactly what you are saying. I may be being overly optimistic, but I am sure that I am beating the $50+5 tables soundly. I am also sure that I will make $50/hr in the long run. I feel this way not because of my results, but because of the players I am playing. I am certain that I am one of the top 3 best players at the table everytime I sit down. I am rarely outplayed, and make few mistakes (as far as I know). They cards will come as they come, but the skill of the players at the table is constant. This is why I say I make $50/hr even though I just moved up 3 weeks ago. Remember that I am making $72/hr over the past 3 weeks running well. Also, I believe $50 is an underestimate of what I will make at this level. This is pointless however. I just wanted to post my thoughts on this. Oh yeah, I made $2690 last month and am up $870 in the first 3 days of this month. I'm in for a losing streak to balance this out unfortunately. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Do you still play at the $30 tables? If so, you need to move up. It is a big mistake to be too cautious with your poker advancement. If you know you have the game beat and you think you can beat the next level, move up. I can't believe it when I see people playing 500 to 1000's of games at one level when they are beating the game soundly. You are costing yourself money if you have the ability to move up. If your playing for fun, or if your ROI isn't up to par, then stay where you are at.

Thanks for your support to have me post more. I've posted a few posts, but I feel like they are getting ignored. I don't want to waste my time. I see bad advice all the time on here though, and it is scary. Maybe I'll start posting a little more.

HC

[HC5831]

I lost $1k in my 1st month of playing. I got extremely lucky in my 1st week of playing and I ended up playing at the 20/40 LHE tables at Paradise. I was up $1k in that week and thought I was a poker natural. I had no clue what I was doing, the luck ran out and I preceded to lose that thousand and a thousand more. I then stopped playing poker and read some poker books. I started playing again a few months later and slowly lost $500 over the next 8 months. I improved as the months wore on (mostly from experience), found this forum and read some more poker books. I played LHE ring games, then multi-table tourney and finally started NLHE Sng's 9 months ago. By the time I started the Sng's, I was able to solidly beat the $10+1 tables and have moved up fairly quickly. I'm currently at the $50 Sngs and looking to move up to the $100's. I'm undecided, but leaning toward the 100's right now. I realise that I am running well, but I feel that I am one of the best player at the $50 tables I play at.

I'm a bit of a risk taker, but I don't do anything stupid. Which is why I have moved up so quickly.

I've read AleoMagus's strategy guide and it's sold poker. I don't agree with everything on there and strongly disagree with a few things, but that's just my style. There is an important aspect of poker that is left out of the guide however: your opponent and stack sizes. In his defense it's just too much to factor these aspects into a post on here. I'll explain a couple things a player needs to think about.

I separate people into the following groups. Fish, strong non-tricky players, strong tricky players, overly aggressive players, and way too tight players. When I sit down at my tables I try to group all the players into these categories based on any notes I have (which happens 5-10% of the time) and they play as we play the lower limits. I've played enough Sng's to figure how players will play in the categories and what my best option is to deal with them.

I'll stear clear of the strong players, I'll try to get the overly aggressive players to bluff their chips to me, I'll bluff the overly tight ones, I'll try to double up on the fish (and be wary of scary board that they are involved in).

In addition to knowing how they play, you have to look at the situation. Position is very important. And your play and that of your opponents differ based on where they are at. Did someone just take a bad beat? Are they on tilt because of the beat? Or do they keep their head. You have to pay attention to this. Is there a short stack who may go all in behind you if you limp?

I'm not going to try to post how you would react in these situations. It's too much. Experience will show you the way. If you start thinking about these questions, you're well on your way. Playing your opponents is just as important as your cards. Which is why most people lose money; they only play their cards! Playing my opponents has been my biggest improvement in my game and continues to be so.

HC

[Nepa]

I myself wouldn't even worry about the title. I have heard ppl say thought to be a pro you have too make 90 percent of your income from poker for 3 years st8.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read AleoMagus's strategy guide and it's solid poker. I don't agree with everything on there and strongly disagree with a few things, but that's just my style.

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Al_Capone_Junior]

My opinion is that if you get more than half your total income from playing poker, then you are a pro poker player.

This is why I say I have been an on again/off again pro for years. On three occasions now, I have gotten all my money from poker (over a significantly long period of time). However, it's always great to have a side job, no matter what you do. I personally think poker makes a better side job than primary job. Since I recently acquired an income other than poker through an internet company, now I am once again a part-time pro, tho probably close to half my income is still coming from poker.

al