Can you find any errors in my play here???

[lautzutao]

Bet the flop or check/fold.

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You absolutely (I'm sure someone will disagree) NOT call this hand with three callers in front of you. I believe (someone please correct me if I am wrong) this would be considered an overcall. You are facing a flush draw and a large field of overcards. If you either can not or are unwilling to protect this hand by betting the flop, then you MUST fold when their is a bet and one or more callers. I think your check-raise is good for building the pot, but you do not have the best possible hand and I fail to see how it protects your hand. In this situation, 3 people folded, but usually they will call another bet especially if the board is uncoordinated. They probably thought you were on a flush or straight draw (or even had a made straight) and some of their outs (if they are even thinking of outs) are counterfeit. I bet the turn and look for aggression, but I think what you did was alright. I bet the river. One last thing. On the flop you did not have three outs to two pair, you only had 2--the 8d gives a flush draw if it hits the turn (like it did). So even if you make your hand on the turn, you may still lose on the river--I would not even count it (someone berate me for this).

[/ QUOTE ]

*berate berate*

*disagree disagree*

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

folding should not be in your vocabulary at any point in this hand. you have TP..... TP!

[lautzutao]

He has a weak pair in a small pot on a LARGE drawing board. What does this bring to mind?

9 to 1 is a small pot?

[lautzutao]

when you guys were saying betbetbetbetbetbetbetbet it's 5:1 yes?


EDIT: How often is a pair of 7's going to hold up in this pot? This looks like reversed implied odds here to me. The way it went, I don't think the checkraise on the turn was all that horrible.

I said check/fold, maybe that's not so good, check/fold is actually sounding really dumb. But I certainly don't like betting out here. You're more than likely not going to have the best hand against this field on the river. And if it does hold up you're not going to collect any bets on the river more than likely.

yes....

but arent we talking about the check/fold scenario?

by the time it gets to you are getting 9-1

[lautzutao]

yeah, read my edited post. I think to continue drawing is thin, but not necessarily bad.

9:1 isn't small, but we DO have to look at our hand as a drawing hand. plug it into pokerstove with a FD hand, 2 hands with overcards, a gutshot hand and a couple of random hands.

[2+2 wannabe]

I check this flop and raise a late-position bet because our hand is probably good here and we want to knock out overcards. If it's bet in EP and called by 2-3 players I probably just call and see what the turn brings. Betting this flop is probably bad due to negative implied odds (no card other than an 8/7/3 is a great card for us).

Bet out the turn though - you don't want to give the double-flushes a free card to snag their river (and you almost certainly have the best hand). This check-raise is an interesting play though (dunno how you can bet/fold the turn being MP1).

Easy river bet.

I don't mind how you played it though - but I fear that you played it this way for reasons contrary to why you should have made those plays (i.e. check/calling flop because you're counting odds and check/raising the turn for protection instead of for the rationale I gave)

yep reverse implied odds is DEFINITELY a negative factor in deciding to call, its just not enough though with the chances of improvement to fold.

btw, you realise i replied to your mail right? just checking... maybe i screwed it up

[2+2 wannabe]

you can't pokerstove this hand very effectively because a lot of overcard hands are folding the turn unimproved, not giving them the river opportunity