Good Books, Bad Books

[Bjorn]

Is there any particular reason why your book has such a long "availibilty time" at Amazon and is there any faster way to order it?

This book is just getting to much praise from several more or less independent poker authorities not to be added to my collection.

/Bjorn

[King Yao]

The second printing is coming out soon. My publisher sold out his first printing three weeks ago, and I suspect the distributers and the retailers are now empty or close to it. Hopefully the second printing should be coming out this week as they promised.

Conjelco carries it, although I don't know if they have any in inventory.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any particular reason why your book has such a long "availibilty time" at Amazon and is there any faster way to order it?

This book is just getting to much praise from several more or less independent poker authorities not to be added to my collection.

/Bjorn

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a thread a few weeks ago where someone linked the book on Walmart's on line site. At the time it was in stock, for like 16 or 17 dollars plus shipping. That's where I got it, but I am not sure if it is still in stock there.

[Rob-L]

[ QUOTE ]

Almost everyone I contacted about the old title said it sucked (or tried to say it in a nice way). Out of 40 people, Ed is now only the third person that liked it. The credit for the current title goes to Brian at the Gambler's Book Shop.

Ed, thanks for the nice comments.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was in GBC a few weeks ago to get your book. Leo says "You know, Brian came up with the title for the book". I think Brain was too modest to say anything himself. Also, I wasn't completely positive they weren't goofing around, but now I know they weren't goofing on me!

It's a clever title.

[uuDevil]

Thanks, Ed. If you're in a book-reviewing mood, how about letting us know what you think of How Good is Your Limit Hold'em and Barry Greenstein's book (when it's out).

[binions]

Hmmm. We have seen the "good books" post. Can't wait to read the "bad books" sequel! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Shandrax]

I have played tournament chess for 22 years and I am rather new to poker, actually I became interested when a chess GM mentioned it in a conversation as his new source of income.

Since I have to learn the game from scratch I can't do without books, so I decided to leak a few $100 for "quality information".

What I have seen so far is lots of stuff like:
"If you got top pair jacks and higher raise, but not if suited cards hit on the flop except they come deuce-eight. Occasionally you may play it differently though which depends on your read or what you think your opponent thinks that you think he thought when he raised because he thought you thought that he thought you would fold."

Also I see lots of handrankings floating around:
"Play groups 1-8, but if the game is lose-tight-agressive with a touch of weakness add group 12, but never play group 5 in this spot", "raise with top ten hands (including 7-7)", "never raise with 7-7 from early position", "limp with A-A", "hardly ever limp with A-A" and so on...

I have not received my copy of SSH yet, so I can't comment on that. Books like HoH are giving me hope though, because Dan managed to give guidlines that one can work with. Like in chess it doesn't help if you just memorize plays. You need to understand the concepts.

Still what I like to see is a book that provides the player with a suggestion for a structured thinking process. Some routine one can go through to make sure all relevant factors have been taken into consideration. I'd also like to see more focus on game theory and the practical application beyond just using it to determine the correct bluffing frequency.

The problem with all of the sophisticated stuff is that limit games for example tend to be so fast, that I wonder if there can be a "real" thinking process involved at all. It seems to be a game where a good developed "feeling" for the plays is required. Certainly something one can't learn from the books.

I compare limit poker to blitz chess. The game is very mechanical and superficious. It is not without a reason that there are no reasonable books on blitz chess on the market.

[Leavenfish]

Shad, I've played tournament chess since I was in High School, so that's right at 25 years. That's a pretty interesting analogy between Blitz and Limit (on line anyway). Still, I've seen GM's and IM's play blitz that would blow the socks off my regular 50 moves in 2 hours game and my rating hovers at around 2400 International Postal and 2100 USCF OTB.

I've been playing poker for nearly 2 years and agree that limit on line is largely mechanical for most...but that is the nature of the game to a large degree at least when compared to an open ended creative game like chess.

The crux of the problem seems to be that you can't learn fundamentally sound chess at the blitz tables...and likewise one will have a difficult time doing so at the 'blitz' limit tables on Party or wherever.

How to 'understand' the game better though and put it into practice? I would say that reading is indeed 'fundamental' here. I learn things that are indeed a little hard to apply at the virtual tables because of the speed...but I keep going back to those very same books when I am away from the tables and slowly but surely I see myself 'getting it' and my bank account increasing. Indeed, I see my poker account as chess ratings...just a measure of how I play compared to everyone else.

Playing live would be a BIG help, to slow the game down enough at first to be apply what you have read. My only visit to a casion was great and rather profitable. If you can't do that...keep reading and re-reading the very same (good) books you have. It will sink in and in time your 'rote' limit play may look more like that of a GM playing blitz rather than a fish.

---Leavenfish

[gila]

[ QUOTE ]


Still what I like to see is a book that provides the player with a suggestion for a structured thinking process. Some routine one can go through to make sure all relevant factors have been taken into consideration. I'd also like to see more focus on game theory and the practical application beyond just using it to determine the correct bluffing frequency.



.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may find such books as Real Poker by Roy Cooke, Inside the Poker Mind, Feeney (sp?), and Improve Your Poker, Caiffone, more in line with what you are talking about. In Cooke's book, he will go through HIS thinking process on many hands. The other two, the authors will show more a structure of WHAT you should be thinking in differing situations.

Still, it all comes down to what you think your opponent thinks that you think that he thinks that you think he thinks. Figure that out in a second while multitabling online and be well on your way to thinking; or at least thinking what they are thinking....is that still thinking? Or is that just thinking you're thinking?

[fnord_too]

You left out text books, which are usually quite horrid now a days. Honestly, I stopped buying the things unless I had a compelling reason to. (This is for technical and non technical texts at undergraduate and graduate levels). Some are quite good, but the amount of crap churned out is astounding, and the whole industry is racket. </soapbox>

I also think Yao's book is outstanding, but I have not finished it yet so I haven't written a review yet. It may end up being my faovite poker book just because he seems to think the same way I do, and the presentation of material seems very natural to me.