How many people do you want in when you have AA,KK?

[ggbman]

How is it ridiculous? Am I in correct is saying that this 30% equity statistic comes from assumes that EVERYONE is seeing showdown with their whole cards? If somehow that isn't what this stat is based on, tehn my argument is nullified, but i am saying i can't imagine how you could calcualte your equity not considering how your opponents play post flop. If everyone is all in preflop and then their is no more betting, yes aces can have 30% equity. BUT, if 10 people see a 875 two suited flop, KQ isnt calling any bets, and its hands like this that are drawing near dead that make your pre-flop equity so high right? When people fold crap on the flop and you only start to get action from real hands, your equity will drop considerably.

[rigoletto]

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When people fold crap on the flop and you only start to get action from real hands, your equity will drop considerably.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not compared to the size of the pot and the number of opponents left.

[ QUOTE ]
if 10 people see a 875 two suited flop, KQ isnt calling any bets, and its hands like this that are drawing near dead that make your pre-flop equity so high right?

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Yes! And all that dead money is why you want many callers preflop.

I suggest you make a search on this subject. It's been rehashed many times in the Small Stakes Forum.

[BigSkiRace]

Yea I want everyone in the hand your still ahead no matter how you think about it before the flop, let the +ev of the hand play out in the long run.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

wtf? how is this in the fcuking mid-high forum?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

this makes me want to cry.

or as joe tall would say, "i threw up a little in my mouth."

[BlueBear]

You will want everybody in for the highest possible pot equity. A simple showdown simulation against random hands will verify this.

[SinCityGuy]

Ten players, capped!

[PokerPrince]

The whole table. Is this a trick question?

PokerPrince

[jdock99]

Ironically, I think AA and to a lesser extent KK make more $$ in the 15-30 and 10-20 games on party than in lower limit games. This is because I often find that when I raise w/ AA & KK I am getting 3 bet and 4 bet by hyper aggressive, albeit oftentimes very good players, with good hands (AK, AQ, QQ, JJ etc.) that I completely dominate, pushing out the 78s, 54s, JQo etc. that you really do not want in there. Then, if the other player flops a pair, ie. when they have AK & you have AA and the king flops, you will get A LOT of action from a hand w/ 3, 2, or ideally 0 outs. So to answer your question from a different angle, I think in the mid limit games you ideally only want a couple people in the pot, but you want those to be hyper-aggressive people that are putting in a large volume of bets w/ hands you dominate and pushing out the hands that give you problems. And trust me, there is no shortage of these players in the Party 15-30 and 10-20 games. Remember, when you are playing AA in a loose game with multiple opponents chasing 5 and 4 outers (meaning they flopped a pair or gutshot straight draw, which I find to be the most common scenario) or runner, runner flushes, they are often giving eachother pot-odds to call, reducing the equity of your AA. In addition, you will often be forced to call bets/check-raises on the river when they make their hands with a tiny chance of winning because pot is so big, further reducing your equity. I would think that these two things combined would make your equity lower than being up against one opponent with AK or AQ capped preflop.

On the flip side though, these same players make it hell trying to play otherwise playable hands, ie QJo, KJo, K10s, and I am forced to not play these hands or only play them in select situations, reducing their winrate dramatically. So to answer the question, I would much rather receive AA in an aggressive 15-30 Party game where I will very often be raise isolated and playing against 1 or 2 opponents I completely dominate, but I would much rather have QJs in an online 2-4 game with 5-6 more passive players seeing the flop.

[Senor Choppy]

Here's something more concrete, from my last 260k hands in PT:

AA vs. various #s of opponents seeing the flop:

BB/Hand Times Dealt
1: 2.46 364
2: 3.12 420
3: 3.81 244
4: 3.06 90
5: 2.23 30
6: 10.73 5
7: NA
8: NA
9: NA

Overall: 2.99

Regardless of results, the correct answer is still everyone.