#11
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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I disagree that this is a bad flop. The chance of hero being behind is very small, given the range of hands villain will play. It's probably better than 4 to 1 that hero is ahead. If an Ace had flopped, that would be a bad flop, but this is a good flop. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, enough of this bullshit. Please give me a hand range for villain, then a hand range for villain calling a bet, then run it through pokerstove. Try 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 first. |
#12
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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I disagree that this is a bad flop. The chance of hero being behind is very small, given the range of hands villain will play. It's probably better than 4 to 1 that hero is ahead. If an Ace had flopped, that would be a bad flop, but this is a good flop. It's a flop where hero is likely to get action from a hand who he is favored against, as there are all sort of draws out there. Hero wants action, so he should bet. There's a good chance villian will go over the top with a draw, so give him the chance to do so. [/ QUOTE ] give me a break... this a good flop? LLLLOOOOLLLL. you cannot be this stupid. yo creed/ check it. |
#13
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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Any random [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] with any random pair is a favorite right now. [/ QUOTE ] I never even realized this. Man. I better go read some books or somethin'. |
#14
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
This is out of my league, but as a small stakes NLHE and LHE player, must I point out the pot size relative to the money behind? Just about any bet ties us to the pot. Even if we're a 60/40ish dog it's not that big of a mistake. The variance sucks, but that's the price for playing against these ATM machines.
Checking behind sucks because he probably doesn't have a heart and one is slightly more likely to turn if he doesn't have it. There is a lot of money out there, you probably have the best hand and he will often have no heart. Push. |
#15
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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This is out of my league, but as a small stakes NLHE and LHE player, must I point out the pot size relative to the money behind? Just about any bet ties us to the pot. Even if we're a 60/40ish dog it's not that big of a mistake. The variance sucks, but that's the price for playing against these ATM machines. Checking behind sucks because he probably doesn't have a heart and one is slightly more likely to turn if he doesn't have it. Push. [/ QUOTE ] Push is terrible. I'd much rather check and let him bluff the turn if I want to get it all in here. |
#16
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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Push is terrible. I'd much rather check and let him bluff the turn if I want to get it all in here. [/ QUOTE ] Are we in a spot to call a bluff? There are a lot of non-heart hands he could have and improve with that he might fold to a push. If a heart hits would you consider calling? When the pot is big I want to maximize my chances of winning it. If he wants action, he's going to get unlimited action from my KK if over 18% of his stack goes in pre-flop. |
#17
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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[ QUOTE ] Any random [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] with any random pair is a favorite right now. [/ QUOTE ] I never even realized this. Man. I better go read some books or somethin'. [/ QUOTE ] holyshit. glad you run good homie. wow. |
#18
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
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Ok, enough of this bullshit. Please give me a hand range for villain, then a hand range for villain calling a bet, then run it through pokerstove. Try 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 first. [/ QUOTE ] You obviously are correct Xorbie, but I do have one quibble. Villain can't put Hero on a black overpair. Put another way, Villain doesn't know that Hero doesn't have a better heart. I wouldn't be anxious to get it all in here with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Would you? |
#19
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ok, enough of this bullshit. Please give me a hand range for villain, then a hand range for villain calling a bet, then run it through pokerstove. Try 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 first. [/ QUOTE ] You obviously are correct Xorbie, but I do have one quibble. Villain can't put Hero on a black overpair. Put another way, Villain doesn't know that Hero doesn't have a better heart. I wouldn't be anxious to get it all in here with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Would you? [/ QUOTE ] To me, that's the point. Even a hand as bad as 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] has you. Are there a lot of these marginal hands that are slightly ahead that will fold to a push? Of course there are. But now imagine the hands that will call you, and how likely they are given a player who raises marginal holdings (many of which hit this flop hard, this player-type loves s00ted cards) and calls RRs with them. [ QUOTE ] Are we in a spot to call a bluff? There are a lot of non-heart hands he could have and improve with that he might fold to a push. If a heart hits would you consider calling? When the pot is big I want to maximize my chances of winning it. If he wants action, he's going to get unlimited action from my KK if over 18% of his stack goes in pre-flop. [/ QUOTE ] This pot isn't that big, and thats just an awful theory anyways. And I believe the point of the check flop, call turn comment was just comparing that line to the flop push, not really suggesting it as optimal play. |
#20
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Re: kk vs maniac, dangerous monotone flop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Ok, enough of this bullshit. Please give me a hand range for villain, then a hand range for villain calling a bet, then run it through pokerstove. Try 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 first. [/ QUOTE ] You obviously are correct Xorbie, but I do have one quibble. Villain can't put Hero on a black overpair. Put another way, Villain doesn't know that Hero doesn't have a better heart. I wouldn't be anxious to get it all in here with 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Would you? [/ QUOTE ] Obviously not, I was just making a point. If hero pushes, I think villain calls with a lot of pair + [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], a lot of 9 + pair, obviously all flushes, obviously all sets/two pair. So really the only thing we beat is if this guy calls with AJ no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or something. |
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