#11
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
[ QUOTE ]
ok i wont talk about myself in the third person but this hand became an instant post as soon as i played it i felt. good 40 live game. i had Qh6h on the button and limped after 3 limpers who play bad and one who plays good. the blinds called. 7 of us. the flop was 6c5d3d. bb who is an okay very young kid who wins im sure and likes to read hands and lay hands down, but also knows i sometimes make plays at pots, bets. two limpers call meaning just about nothing and i raise. he 3 bets, the worst limper calls, and i call. the turn is Ad. he bets, limper folds, and i raise. ill stop the action there and see what you guys think. [/ QUOTE ] PREFLOP: Marginal call, close enough though that its not worth discussing. FLOP: Youre getting 10-1 to continue in this hand on a connected board with a flush draw, given the fact that your hand may not even be best right now and if it is it likely will not hold up, I would just fold. Folding the flop is the best play in my opinion. TURN: I like it a lot. Against the type of player who is trying to play well and willing to lay a hand down based on reads, this is a good play. You played your hand just like a flush draw on the flop, so if the villain doesnt have the flush himself he will likely lay it down unless he has two pair or a set. Of course if you think he will call you down regardless b/c of your image with him than just fold the turn. |
#12
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
Preflop: fine
Flop: That's one ugly raise on that board given your relative position to the flop bettor. Calling is way better. Folding is almost as good as raising. Turn: Raising beats calling as he is very unlikely to have a flush, while he shoudl know that you could. He might very well lay down a hand better than yours. But if he is teacious and suspicious or just calling station, I would just fold. So, the turn is a raise or fold spot. |
#13
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
I like it, your raising for a free show-down and you might possibly get him to fold a better hand, IE: K6 if he thought you were raising him on the flop with a draw. If he is 3-betting the flop with a straight draw he will call and check to you on river making you pick up extra bet. If you get 3-bet or he donks river, you have easy fold.
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#14
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
I think the turn raise is good. you unfortunately built a big pot without much of a hand, though your play is perfectly in line with a diamond draw. the problem is he probably has a big hand, and he knows you liek to do stuff like raise a bet and two calls with a pair of sixes on a draw heavy board. you say he likes to lay hands down, and he might do just that.
the flop raise I really hate, and have no clue why you did that |
#15
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
Preflop: textbook call out of the loose games section in HPFAP.
Flop: I'd have called and seen what the turn brang. (I know, brought, but I like brang.) Since the guy knows you like to make plays and he bet into the field, a 3-bet is likely and unlikely to lose many, if any, of the limpers. I can even see an argument for folding as you're unlikely to have a winning hand by the river. Were you raising not fearing a 3-bet in the hope that his 3-bet might clear out some of the others? Turn: the pot is pretty big now so putting in the extra bet to see if he'll lay something down has merit. He might be thinking you would have raised pre-flop from the button with a hand you were going to play with an ace in it. Usually, though, when a guy bets the turn when an Ace comes it's a sign that he has something with which he wants you to raise. Plus he knows you like to make plays at the pot. I smell trouble. Hope I'm wrong. |
#16
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
[ QUOTE ]
Usually, though, when a guy bets the turn when an Ace comes it's a sign that he has something with which he wants you to raise. [/ QUOTE ] This in itself is worth the price of admission to this thread. Something a lot of otherwise very strong players fail to consider often enough. -James |
#17
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Usually, though, when a guy bets the turn when an Ace comes it's a sign that he has something with which he wants you to raise. [/ QUOTE ] This in itself is worth the price of admission to this thread. Something a lot of otherwise very strong players fail to consider often enough. -James [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. Westley's analysis is right on too. Folding on the flop is certainly what I would do for the reasons he gave. |
#18
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
To answer the question in the title-- no, this is not the old mike l. Not even close. I miss the old mike l., but I think the new mike l. is going to beat the crap out of the old one's earn.
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#19
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Usually, though, when a guy bets the turn when an Ace comes it's a sign that he has something with which he wants you to raise. [/ QUOTE ] This in itself is worth the price of admission to this thread. Something a lot of otherwise very strong players fail to consider often enough. -James [/ QUOTE ] I thought about saying that, but given the loose structure of the game - it shouldnt be a big surprise for mike to hold any Axs. |
#20
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Re: the old mike l. rears his ugly head?
What Andy says is more applicable in spots where the guy is betting into a preflop raiser. Here, the bet by the dude on the ace turn card is of no great moment. He 3 bet the flop. He is going to bet a high percentage of the time on the turn no matter what it is unless he is against a gaggle of opponents (but here he only has 2).
I don't put much stock in the guy's turn bet. Mike simply has to read his thoughts (more than he has to read his hand) and decide whether he will fold to a turn raise given that it makes a flush. Andy, I can't seem to reply to your PM for whatever reason. |
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