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  #1  
Old 12-24-2005, 09:38 AM
imashyboi imashyboi is offline
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

I'll take a shot at this. I not really a stats guy so I'm not positive that my answer is 100% correct.

PreFlop - Standard

Flop - I'll 3bet this flop and see what he does. If you are capped I think you are behind here more than ahead, though he could also have a AQ. I think finding out how your opponent plays his TPTK in this position will help you the most. Some players will cap AQ/KQ/QJ/QT and some won't so it really depends who you're playing against. If he has a set then you are way behind.

Turn - Instead of raising I would suggest betting out. He's not going to raise you here with less than AQ if he does have it. He might even smooth call the bet fearing that you have a monster and will fear getting 3bet. Would he check-raise here again with just AQ? That's the question you need to figure out. The 3bet from him indicates that you are beat probably by a set so I would fold(two pair is very unlikely since the board looks far apart). His play doesn't scream monster until the 3bet on the Turn. Everything else looks standard.

River - Would you check or bet out in this position? I would fire again if he just calls the Turn, indicating weakness. Anyone want to comment what to do if he raises the River? I don't really know what to do here if the action goes raised. I would probably fold since I can't put him on a hand that I can beat.
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:41 AM
BigEndian BigEndian is offline
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each time

You're hoping for only a few things in a call down: he has KQ and over-played it, he paired the 9 or 7 and picked up the flush draw/straight draw and plays these situations hard (see Jason's post), he has a lesser holding and is a complete idiot.

Having been 3-bet after you CRed and after you smooth-called the flop, I think you can get away from this hand a lot of the time if you don't have a read.

- Jim
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2005, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

As you know, this situation is heavily player dependent. You need to understand what he thinks of your ability to fold on the turn. This will help you get an idea of what he can 3 bet with.

Villian will raise this flop with any pair. Some players will call the 3 bet flop and call down with any pair , many will call the 3bet flop and fold the turn or river.

If you don't 3 bet, JT will probably raise the flop, bet the turn and check the river.

I find it common for the flush draw to 3 bet the turn if he also has a pair. Top pair with the flush draw will be frequently 3 betting the turn.

Does the villian have a straight, two pair or trips enough for you to fold here? I don't think so.
Usually, the villian needs to be very tight and predictable for you to fold this turn.

BTW, if this player is too aggro, I would consider check calling down after he flop-raises. If he was too aggro, I wouldn't be comfortable checkraising the turn since he knows that his 3 bet puts you in a hard spot that will cause many tight players to make the mistake of folding. So basically, if he is a tough aggro he will folding to your checkraise and he will 3 betting light more often than we would like.
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2005, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

While this is very player dependent, a lot of times I like capping with AQ on the turn. CO could be raising a weaker queen here or AQ as well, allowing you to either push him off his hand or win more money. The reason why I say CO could have a weaker queen is because many times, players will 3-bet KQ here in position and check behind you on the river if he fails to improve. It costs the same as calling you down, but can also cause you to fold a better hand.

Of course, it is possible CO does have a set. Therefore I like capping the turn and bet/folding the river or calling the turn and bet/calling the river.
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:44 PM
chav chav is offline
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

call down against all but the most tight-passive.U may be up against 2-pair having 5-8 outs.U may be up another AQ.U may be up against a drinker,bower,pchyco etc.Even if your call is -EV it is a small one and u can consider it an advertising money i.e helps your meta game , image buiding (tough ,no mess around)calling here might save u a lot of $$$ in the future apart from being the right thing to do in this situation
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2005, 01:56 AM
golferbrent golferbrent is offline
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each time

How bad is this player? I think some consideration to capping is in order. Biggest problem here is that you played the flop passively. I 3 bet flop most times here OOP and only hand on the flop that I would be concerned about would be 7-7.
Villian could be going for the 3 bet to check through a worse queen here. Sounds like the game is tight and I don't see a call with 10-8s preflop to be likely. He could CC with 7-7 or 6-6 (which he got frisky with on the flop). However, in that 20 game q-q and 9-9 are 3 betting preflop and as such he didn't. Other hands to consider are A-A and K-K played slowly preflop. However, with your hand containing an A I would discount this likely hood.

In the heat of battle I would be hard pressed to four bet and would probably just call down.
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2005, 02:16 AM
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

Correct me if im wrong but i think to call down in this situation you would be 7.5 to 2 if you consider it to be a decision of either calling to the river or folding on the turn after the check-raise. If that is the question that Card Sharp Cook is asking then he is treating the turn just as the river and it is a question of whether he thinks he is beat or not. If he is more than 78% (7.5/9.5) sure he is beat it is my opinion that he should fold, especially being that he does not have a solid read on the CO.
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2005, 11:46 AM
sfer sfer is offline
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

If you're unsure of what to do on the turn, spray it on the flop. A lot of times I spray the flop precisely to prevent myself from having tough turn decisions.
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2005, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: OK, these are the hands that may be costing me an extra 2BBs each

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