PP $11 - Okay, so I'm ascared of pushing on the bubble. BFD. 3 Hands

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I wonder how bad this play is.

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Worse than you could ever know.

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Well, in my defense: I'm making this play less and less often. But, I'd still be interested in seeing the difference quantified.

[playtitleist]

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I wonder how bad this play is.

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Worse than you could ever know.

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Well, in my defense: I'm making this play less and less often. But, I'd still be interested in seeing the difference quantified.

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Well first off, you affectively transfer the push/fold power to the BB, now YOU have to have a good hand to call his push over the top. So he can now push any two. The times you can't call, you've bled valuable chips. That will be most times.

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I wonder how bad this play is.

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Worse than you could ever know.

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Well, in my defense: I'm making this play less and less often. But, I'd still be interested in seeing the difference quantified.

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Well first off, you effectively transfer the push/fold power to the BB, now YOU have to have a good hand to call his push over the top. So he can now push any two. The times you can't call, you've bled valuable chips. That will be most times.

[/ QUOTE ]If he is going to push any two over a min-raise, then isn't it right to min-raise sometimes? Some sort of mixed strategy is probably best. There are times when you want a call, if BB is more likely to get all his chips in if you min-raise than if you push, it seems prudent to mix in some min-raises. Right?

Actually, if BB pushes any two after a min-raise, that's no different than a 100% calling range if the SB pushes. It would seem that there would be a way to exploit this.

[durron597]

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I wonder how bad this play is.

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Worse than you could ever know.

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Well, in my defense: I'm making this play less and less often. But, I'd still be interested in seeing the difference quantified.

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Alright, if I am BB, I push 100% of my hands, and you fold. So you just donated 800 chips to me, which is over 33% of your stack.

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I wonder how bad this play is.

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Worse than you could ever know.

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Well, in my defense: I'm making this play less and less often. But, I'd still be interested in seeing the difference quantified.

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Alright, if I am BB, I push 100% of my hands, and you fold. So you just donated 800 chips to me, which is over 33% of your stack.

[/ QUOTE ]If you're pushing back 100% of hands, I can figure a way to exploit this. But, I don't think that's what most players are doing. I think the reality is that players are very tight in this BB situation.

Part of me knows that it's right to push. Part of me thinks a mixed strategy would be even better in theory. Part of me knows that the BB isn't going to play anywhere near optimally in the face of a min-raise. And, part of me feels it's nice not to risk ruin on this hand. I try to avoid playing by feel, but sometimes I can't help myself.

Anyway, all this was meant as sympathy for the OP who was having trouble himself with committing to the push in this situation. I meant mostly to let him know that he is not alone. Note that I've wondered "how bad" the min-raise is, not whether it is bad.

My actions:

#1 fold
#2 push
#3 push

I have sngpt too and I realized that you really have to look at the ranges of some players because even though most players play a bad end game at this level some will play way too loose and some way too soft. SNGPT doesn't lie, but if you don't have a good read on players at your table you should pass up some of the more marginal pushing opportunities because if you are a good player there will often times be more profitable plays to make soon.

[tigerite]

I'd push the 2nd and 3rd without thinking about it; the 1st is (for a change!) marginal but it's probably also fine to push, however, I might not in this situation just so I could get away with pushing #2 and #3 more readily.. if that makes sense.

I'm surprised people think the first hand is close. Judging by most 11s I've ever played, pushing here is pretty bad. Maybe not Hindenburg bad but still. From a pure numbers approach, even if the blinds are calling top 8% (66+, AT+) pushing is -EV. And lots of blinds at this limit are waaay looser than that.

You have a relatively big stack and it's good if your gut instinct is to start leaning forward with it. But here the disparity isn't nearly big enough to push any two, not to mention you'd be pushing over the only guy who has you covered. At these blinds and these positions, I wouldn't be thinking about pushing ANY two until I had opened up a little more daylight, like maybe 3500 chips vs even stacks.

The second and the third hand are easy pushes for what Bluefeet said. So when the BB wakes up with AA in both of them you can take solace in the math.