QJo vs TAG 3-bet on a Jh 9s 8h board

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lots of draw and 2 pair out there. I think I call down.

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Pretty obvious to raise if you put them on draws, pretty obvious to get out if you are against two pair. Which is it?

[MattC]

Why obvious to get out or raise? I dont like raising because we could very well be behind but i also think the collection of the facts that we can outdraw 2 pair, that he has a draw, pair + draw, orthat hes overplaying something like top pair weaker kicker makes it a call down.

Of course, i'm very willing to re evauluate based on the turn card + action.

It would take a very strong read to put BOTH opponents on draws here. With that said, your other option leaves you looking like you are drawing against two pair. You have the Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] so your Q 2 pair draw is good, 3 outs. I think it's safe to say that hitting your gutshot where the 10 is a heart is not a sure way to win.

They might very well already have a straight and you are drawing to 2 Ts.

Any way im looking at it, you have 6 BBs in the pot on the turn and at best have 5 clean outs.

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Any way im looking at it, you have 6 BBs in the pot on the turn and at best have 5 clean outs.

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Which is why I folded, I figured I had to be beat and the pot wasn't big enough to justify continuing with the hand.

Now that I've had some more time to think about the hand, I see that JT could be another likely hand for SB. If he would c/r 2-pair in this spot wouldn't he also c/r with TP OESD? Also given my read on SB as a TAG player and the fact that his play up to this point has been pretty straight foward. It's been about 30-ish hands or so. My gut tells me that he is more likely to bet out with 2-pair and slowplay a straight.

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lots of draw and 2 pair out there. I think I call down.

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Really? Is my hand strong enough to overcall on the turn?

[danzasmack]

This is an easy pf raise.

I hate the fold. 3-betting is JT and 9T plenty of times. I definatly call down.

oh cool, I think this was me....wow, one of the hands I played in was posted...I'll need to check my hand histories when I get home to be sure as that i guess that it is quite possible I played in a hand that looked alot like this

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This is an easy pf raise.

I hate the fold. 3-betting is JT and 9T plenty of times. I definatly call down.

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You say that like it's a good thing. We've outlined that you'd be behind in those circumstances, not to mention forced into a two pair crying call if you hit your Q.

The outs vs. the money in the pot, you are missing the odds to call by .2, but it's a marginal situation that you are summing into an "easy call down.", without apparent reasoning to me.

[Dopey]

Its an easy call down because while we may be missing out on the odds by .2 when we are behind, we are ahead often enough to easily make up for it.

I agree with everyone who says raise pre and calldown and think it should be pretty close to standard.

And just for fun: Your SB Tag read means very little after 30 hands [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Dopey [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[Weatherhead03]

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SB is a TAG player while BB is TP PF

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Im sure its already been said but since your reads are that the SB and BB are fairly tight that gives you all the more reason to try and steal the blinds..although I wouldnt even look at there stats or reads with QJo on the button.