Lay it down or double through to top 5 in chips?

[DireWolf]

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push the flop

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did u look at stack sizes here?

[Kirkrrr]

Totally agree. Raise pot on flop, push the turn.
Calling that bet on he turn is awful, as now he knows that you are not too sure about your hand and will try to take it away from you on the river regardless of what he's got.

I'd be inclined to view a value bet with more fear than a push after I've shown weakness.
The most likely hand he has is a medium underpair, imo, possibly overplayed overcards - AK, KQ.

Kirk

[Dave D]

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(remember the old rule - when you raise, they think you have AK - always remember that...)


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Can you elaborate what you mean by this?

[adanthar]

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Totally agree. Raise pot on flop, push the turn.
Calling that bet on he turn is awful, as now he knows that you are not too sure about your hand and will try to take it away from you on the river regardless of what he's got.


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Sigh.

And this is a bad thing because...?

[adanthar]

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It has nothing with results oriented thinking, other than what is the best way to play a hand on this board. I think it gets to a point where you have to decide, which I didn't, whether you are going to go all the way with this hand, if so push the turn is better, and flop may be even better due to the fact you allow someone with a PP to catch up or maybe someone to hit their kicker.

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OK, I didn't even see this post and now I'm just shaking my head.

If you decide you are going all the way with this hand on the turn, pushing sucks. I'll post my explanation if you want me to but it ought to be really obvious.

This is related to the fact that if you decide you're going all the way on the flop (which you should) the last thing in the world you want to do is make 88 fold.

[rockythecat99]

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I'm not going to tell you what I think of the play preflop, and just try to analyze what you two have done....(yes, I like post flop/turn pushes too, but

honestly...if I were to totally analyze this from his perspective...(and that'a a good way to look at it)

he's got something - maybe JJ - a decent hand but NOT probably a reraising hand - he bets on the flop and you raise.

Turn comes - he bets again - you just call - to him, this PROBABLY looks like you're scared - you pumped the thing twice and didn't get rid of him, so now you're backing down and just trying to see the river.

(remember the old rule - when you raise, they think you have AK - always remember that...)

River comes - no A or K (what he probably put you on) - so he goes for the big push thinking he can beat you even if you do call - and thinking you might with a middle pair or even AK as some will do if they think their opponent has no pair...

it takes a few seconds of analysis, but playing it over, from his perspective on what you have done, I'd think he was playing a big pair and thought he could just take it from your AK, and if he's lucky, get a call too - could he have called with A7 or K7 or 88 - well yah... Only you know by observing the players whether he would have done that, provided you're not new to the table.

who knows...personally, if I played it the way you did and had this choice on the river, I'd call - but of course, it don't cost no money even if you lose -

know what hand would work perfect here? - AQ offsuit - it's the kind of hand that's one of the few I'll not reraise with all the time - he calls the bets and is still trying some moves for the pot since he's first to act, and after the turn, - he puts you on AK and pushes all in on the river thinking you can't call if he's read you right...

RB

[/ QUOTE ]
Ding, Ding, Ding we have a winner. Great post whiskey man.

[Kirkrrr]

The way the hand payed out he has to call the river. But it's bad putting yourself in these situations because Hero has no clear idea where he stands and will hate the river decision.

"...will bet regardless of what he has" doesn't necessarily mean with a worse hand.

[adanthar]

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The way the hand payed out he has to call the river. But it's bad putting yourself in these situations because Hero has no clear idea where he stands and will hate the river decision.

"...will bet regardless of what he has" doesn't necessarily mean with a worse hand.

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...and going all in on the turn helps this how...?

[whiskeytown]

if you raise preflop, the hand your opponents are most likely to put you on is AK - everyone seems to think everyone is raising with AK -

SO, if you raise with 77, and the flop comes with a K or A, a well placed bet will often take it - and if an A or K doesn't come, quite often, your action will be a little better then if it had - there are exceptions, but generally, when a person raises, his opponents think "AK"

RB

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
if you raise preflop, the hand your opponents are most likely to put you on is AK - everyone seems to think everyone is raising with AK -

SO, if you raise with 77, and the flop comes with a K or A, a well placed bet will often take it - and if an A or K doesn't come, quite often, your action will be a little better then if it had - there are exceptions, but generally, when a person raises, his opponents think "AK"

RB

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oh come on. If you raise PF your opponents understand you are on a range of hands, 77-AA AT-AK KQ KJ QJ, and more or less depending on your table image. No one immediately assumes AK.