Celebrating a big win

[BarronVangorToth]

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't even read the rest of the thread yet, but this is a great post. It's on ESPN, viewers expect some celebration. I watched it with two non poker players, and they thought it was great when he fell back on the table.

Justin A

[/ QUOTE ]


It would've been even better if he got up on his chair and moonsaulted through the table.

Granted, I design the WWE CCG, so I'm biased that way.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[B Dids]

I don't mind the win celebrations when the tournaments over. It's getting overly pumped about the inbetween stuff that bothers me.

[toots]

Boy, I'm gonna have to bone up on my poker skills just so I can really piss you guys off.

[West]

Most of the examples you mention are team sports, are competitions of a physical nature, and take place in an environment where the fans are making as much noise as possible. It's not the same as poker.

I personally don't really have a problem with Fischmans falling on the table celebration (which occurred after he'd won the whole thing, obviously winning a bracelet was the fulfillment of a dream), but I do think that the amount of whooping it up he did prior to that, and the way that he did it, was classless.

I mean, he'd knock out a short stack when he was the chip leader, and you'd have thought he just won the tourney. Often it appeared as if shaking the opponents hand was an afterthought, more something he did if they thought it was necessary. That was the impression I got anyway.

Getting knocked from a big tourney like that at that point has got to be devastating - I just think that there can be some recognition on the other players part that it's not the most enjoyable thing hearing your opponent whoop it up to the moon after he just sucked out on you. I agree with those that think that the classy thing to do is to acknowledge your opponent, shake his/her hand, and then if you want to pump your fist to the crowd you can do it. I realize that you're going to feel like doing it the second you win the hand - and in certain situations, when so much is at stake, I can see where it is next to impossible not to celebrate to an extent right away. But in other situations, I think the classy players are going to handle things differently than Scott Fischman did. I thought Kent Washington was an excellent example of that when he knocked several opponents out.

[Easy E]

You have a point, but I disagree somewhat. For one, I think team sport victories are different, because your team is beating their team- it's not as personal.

Secondly, it takes a lot more long-term effort (over a season and playoffs) to win a championship. Poker is short-term.

Third, luck is usually not as much a factor as it is in poker- skill matters more, with seedings and such (you could argue the NCAAs, of course, but that is still one of my favorite tournaments even so). So, it is much harder to think that you DESERVED to win based on your poker skill

Fourth, those are natural celebration instincts/results. If the winning team celebrated by doing some weird group happydance, that was obviously choreographed [spelling] and not spontaneous, I'd have a problem with that as well.


Scott went overboard with it- he started off wrong right off the bat with the Aces vs. lower pair. There was NO need to rub it in the smaller stack's face when the Ace flopped, to the extreme that he did. He already had him beaten, and the Ace did help secure it, but it wasn't the final hand to win the tournament. There was NO need for this and was contrived at BEST.

<font color=" blue"> Maurice Green, one of the current "fastest men alive" takes his track shoes off after winning a 100m race and a friend sprays a fire extinguisher on them, because he "runs so fast, his shoes are on fire". </font>

bad example- this is the same type of thing that Fishmann did.
I would have smacked Maurice into the turf if I had been a competitor, similar to the Terrell Owens dance on the Dallas star situation (and I'm not a Cowboys fan). This was staged grandstanding for the purpose of showing off. It had nothing to do with the natural release following a victory.


Besides, I'm just naturally harsh on smug, arrogant people.

[Easy E]

Then we'll call you an ass as well.

[Easy E]

I agree, this is also stupid. No one sane has a natural instinct to destroy things in order to celebrate a victory. They are doing it for other reasons- selfishness and an immature need to show off being some of them

[Easy E]

Great description of the reason that Fishmann was wrong.

His previous childishness added to my condemnation of the final stupidity.
Plus, he should have been amazed/graceful that he was lucky enough to have sucked out on the river to win the tournament. The final hand had nothing to do with getting the bracelet- it was determined when Scott sucked out on Presto! for most of the chips.

[ElSapo]

I don't have a problem with any kind of reactionary celebration. I've competed at a relatively high level in a sport, and once it's over there is an emotional response that really can't be controlled.

The problem is that Fischman's celebration's reeked of being conscious displays of being a ass, not at all spontaneous. The key one I recall was when he kissed his aces.

This is my problem with so many celebrations -- they're just planned and theatrical and seem as much designed to celebrate as to belittle the opponent. But when you see it come out for real, when it really is that emotional release of relief and exultation and amazement and adrenaline, then those celebrations are really gorgeous things.

It's not a subtle line.

It's possible, I admit, that Fischman's celebrations were everything I just wrote about -- that he really was simply reacting, and really couldn't control his reactions. And if that's the case, then I'll simply say that I hope he goes back and watches the tapes, sees how it looks and endeavors to tone it down a bit, if he can.

On another note, it's obvious that "The Crew" was out for as much publicity as possible and so I'd say there's little doubt they all agreed to ham it up as much as possible.

ElSapo

[fnurt]

Team sports, as others have said, are a bad analogy. Maybe look at how someone acts after winning Wimbledon, or the Masters, or something. They fall to their knees, kiss the ground, throw a ball into the crowd, whatever... but then they always make a point of shaking hands before continuing the celebration, because it's rude to leave your competitor standing there.

Individual sports offer good parallels in other ways as well. You don't see Phil Mickelson jumping around like an idiot because he birdied 16, or Andre Agassi doing the electric slide because he won the first set. A clench of the fist, maybe an under-the-breath exhortation to themselves, and they're right back at it, because your focus needs to be on the big prize.

I agree that people who expect poker to be played completely without emotion are being silly. Not only are there millions of dollars on the line, but this is an age of TV exposure, and remember, we're trying to attract people to this here game. A bunch of expressionless geeks sitting around a table, betraying no reaction to anything, might be classy but it won't win you many devotees.