Immigration hysteria

[publius]

[ QUOTE ]
The answer to this problem is *not* to restrict cheap labor. Minimim wages, and the onerous employer requirements kill jobs for the lowest skilled americans. In fact, Americans with slightly better skill sets may be unemployable while illegals who are getting paid less per hour take home MORE at a lower cost to the employer. So the employer can pay more per hour to a lower-skilled illegal worker because his real cost of hiring the more-skilled american worker is too high.


[/ QUOTE ]

two problems with your logic:

one- elimininating the minimum wage would prevent any possibility of americans working the lowest paying jobs from ever climbing out of poverty, effectivly creating a serf/labor class out of citizens

two- there is nothing that (effectivly) prevents american citizens from taking the same jobs as illegals, and working under the table.

[Ray Zee]

one major reason europe has had problems with giving good pay and benefits, is that it doesnt allow for letting go workers so that is why employers are very reluctant to hire on extras as then they cant lay them off if business doesnt warrant it.

but its not all about what makes the most money for the economy or big business. its about people getting to live out of poverty, at least the ones that want to. and having a life without knowing the first setback puts them out on the street. overall like is pretty good in europe despite workers getting good benefits and living wages. its better here for those that work themselves to death for money and succeed.

[CORed]

Walls and fences by themselves won't do it even if electrified. They will simply climb over, knock down, cut through or tunnel under any barrier we can put up. Electrified fences can be cut with insulated tools or shorted out. The barriers will have to be guarded. This may well be worth doing, but it will be expensive. we will probably have to secure coastlines and the Canadian border, too, before we're done. As long as the disparity in job opportunities and wages between Mexico and USA exists, people will try to find a way to get here. We can probably put a dent in the number who get through, but we won't stop them all. Unfortunately, there's not a lot we can do to fix Mexico's economy.

[lehighguy]

I have no doubt the system is great for those CURRENTLY employed. However, people looking for new jobs can't find them and young poeple are going to be even more screwed then the ones here when they have to fund the extravegent pension system over there: http://economic-research.bnpparibas....df?OpenElement

Moreover, the system lowers GDP growth and thusly lowers the standard of living of generations to come. The uncompetitive nature of the market will only make European competition in the global marketplace all the more diffucult. Eventaully they will start losing skilled labor jobs because the costs are too high and there are qualified people elsewhere.

Socialism is great in the short term. But the world is moving quick these days and capital and jobs flow to the most competitive areas of the world. Third world countries like China aren't about to raise thier standards in unison because low wages are their only competitive advantage.

Most American's even those working at WalMart, are overpaid. I say this because there are billions of people in third world countries that can do the same job for less. There is no reason anyone in America deserves to get paid more just for being American. That is the kinduv attitude that has led jobs overseas.

The more economic "rights" people in the first world demand the more jobs and capital will go overseas.

[natedogg]

one- elimininating the minimum wage would prevent any possibility of americans working the lowest paying jobs from ever climbing out of poverty, effectivly creating a serf/labor class out of citizens

No... eliminating the minimum wage would *create* jobs for the low skilled workers who are currently unable to find employment because their productivity is lower than $6/hr or whatever minimum wage is currently.

two- there is nothing that (effectivly) prevents american citizens from taking the same jobs as illegals, and working under the table.

Except the the fact that it's *illegal*. The point is the laws make law-abiders uncompetetive, so your response to my suggestion that we should change the law is "no, these people should just stop abiding the by the laws"????

In essence, you are agreeing with me.

natedogg

[ACPlayer]

One -- I dont think it is that simple. Consider that, for example in AC, we have rampant unemployment but the Casinos have trouble finding enough employees. Many employees are immigrants who have a strong work ethic and in some cases cant qualify for welfare. Couple this with the health care problem, and there are jobs available at the current wages for unskilled people and the jobs are tough to fill.

The minimum wage is not the problem, at least not the main issue.

[Stu Pidasso]

Most of your thinking right wingers understand that we need immigration and lots of it. We understand that without lots of immigration the panzi schemes of social security and medicare created by the left will come crashing down upon us. Its better for us to have open boarders than be stuck at the bottom of the pyramid.

Stu

[lehighguy]

I don't know alot about the AC economy, but perhaps the diffuculty surronding employment involves the fact that you can't hire just anybody with all that money involved. A dealer has more "skills" then someone at McDonalds even if those skills are merely a clean record.

Also, I'm pretty sure dealers and such make more then minimum wage (consider tips) so min wage really isn't an issue there.

[ACPlayer]

My point is that there are simple to perform jobs available (like dealing blackjack etc) and yet the AC unemployment is high.

The problem is not the minimum wage, or at least it is not the only or perhaps even the major issue.

[lehighguy]

Like I said in my post, minimum wage isn't the issue in AC.

But if you raise the min wage to $15/hr McDonalds will start layoffs.