We are the sewers of society

[Paluka]

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If you want to rationalize, you can easily rationalize that no one "contributes" to society except doctors and farmers.

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what im saying is to forget rationalizing it.

im saying that if you do nothing but play poker, what difference does it make if you exist or not?

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I know a lot of people who would be very sad if I was gone. I must be doing something right.

[Jazza]

i agree with cnfzzed here, although i still have a little idealistic fix-the-world, help-other-people left in me

[syka16]

OK. Poker players are a pretty worthless lot. But the game is easy enough so that with some basic understanding, fish won't be losing all that much money. I'm a teacher and I help out students all day long and it's nice to know that I can go home at night, and make some extra money. The families in my distric don't own computers so I know I'm not keeping them from buying school supplies.

[eric5148]

if you do nothing but trade stocks, what difference does it make if you exist or not?

if you do nothing but play or teach a sport, what difference does it make if you exist or not?

if you do nothing but design clothes, what difference does it make if you exist or not?

if you do nothing but paint houses, what difference does it make if you exist or not?

if you do nothing but fix cars, what difference does it make if you exist or not?

[Morgan O'Mally]

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yes.

i disagree with the way that our socio-economic structure limits the ability of the poor to ever become not-poor. I dont like that big business essentially runs this country, and i especially dont like conservative christianity. However, after a few years of trying to influence people, ive come to be a bitter, apathetic bastard. Ive found a career path that almost exclusively allows me to either feed on those who engage in activities i disagree with, or really piss off some conservatives.

i dont volunteer. i will do nothing to prop up a system that ultimatly is doomed to failure. I dont really care about nameless faces, and most of the volunteering that is done occurs primarily because of the guilt associated with not being poor, and the narcissistic pleasure of helping the lower classes.

peace

john nickle

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My boy is Wicked Smart!

[Jazza]

i think the last four of on your list can have an overall positive effect on other people

[jakethebake]

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As poker players, we don't earn our money.

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Yes we do.

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A lot of kids don't get to go extra vacations or they get cheap birthday presents because their fathers or mothers gamble away healthy sums of money.

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I have no responsibility to those kids or their parents.

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We can justify it to ourselves by saying that people choose to put their money on the table, that they can walk away any time, that they would have just lost it at blackjack etc. etc.

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We don't have to justify anything.

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there's no denying that if every poker player on earth were to die instantly, nothing would really be worse off.

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so what?

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We suck money out of the economy and don't really provide anything in return.

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Really? You don't spend the money you earn playing poker?

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We take take and take and nobody really benefits from our existence.

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Well except my kids, and they're the only ones I have a responsibility to benefit.

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Do you have a job in which you provide some benefit to someone in exchange for your income (engineer, lawyer, busboy, anything, manufacture fake dog [censored], anything)

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I have a "professional" job but wish i didn't have to. I'd play poker if i could.

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Do you volunteer in the community?

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I used to but haven't in quite awhile. maybe i will again.

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Is money and comfort the only thing you care about? Does every decision you make first require EV calculations?

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no. i care about my family. i care that the money i earn is done so honestly, but unless you're a cheat then poker is an honest living.

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What do you do to make someone else's experience this planet better off?

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i have no responsibility to do so.

I tend to have a pretty libertarian/objectivist viewpoint in case no one could tell. This gets brought up pretty regularly. If you don't like the way poker makes you feel about yourself, find something else. I understand that and more power to you.

[Josh W]

I wrestled with many of the ideas that you point out here for a long time. When I played lower limits (9-18 and lower), I'd often leave a table if, in my uneducated opinion, my opponents couldn't afford to lose the money. This was rare. But seeing the guy pull a couple 20s and a bunch of brown singles out of his sock to buy in his $90 for the game was one such instance. When he cold-called my UTG raise w/ K5o, I left. I didn't want to win.

Now, I play higher stakes. I play with people who drive BMWs, wear Rolex's, own multiple homes, etc. I'm not ruining their kids Christmas's.

Also, as I've said many times, I give 1/3 of what I win to charity. Ultimately, this is the only way I can justify spending my time at a card table. And, in case you are wondering, I did this for multiple years before I ever heard the name "Barry Greenstein".

The one time I got a 'table share' of a bad beat jackpot, another player, Jim, was at the table. Jim is a millionaire many times over. The table share was just over $2800. So, I asked him "Jim, what say you and I go to the charity of your choice and both donate this $2800?" See, Jim and I have this standing agreement to do whatever possible to put the other on tilt. But we are friends. And, I felt highly confident that he wouldn't, and I'd try to show him up somewhat with this. Even though I donate 1/3 of my winnings, I had never asked, expected, or even hinted to others that they should do the same. It's something I do so that I can sleep at night. It's not up to me to judge others.

But I like trying to get under Jims skin, just like he likes trying to get under mine (FYI, he's the only person I have this standard working arrangement with...). He declined my suggestion, so from that point on, anytime he lost a pot, I'd point out how that money could be at the American Heart Association or some other charity.

So, yeah, I agree with you. Poker players (while playing poker...they may be great people in other areas) are contributing nothing to society. They are noticeably below ditch-diggers as far as importance goes.

If you don't like this, do something charitable with your poker winnings. This will also give you a sense of responsibility...kids will benefit if you get better at reading people. Cancer victims will have more hope if you avoid tilt. Teen Leadership programs will be able to flourish if you stop playing KTo in early position. It's a level of accountability.

Josh

[Gamblor]

i can't believe you don't see that tons of people benefit from those activities. even stock brokers.

[eric5148]

I can't believe that you can't see that we could all very easily do without them.