online single table tournaments vs limit ring games. - Page 2

Copernicus · #11 09-05-2003, 09:23 AM

If you took the time to read before responding you would noticd that I said 2 tablers. Your $21 is close for finishing 2.5 in a 1 tabler, and your suggestion that my number is close to coming in first, that also looks like a 1 tabler.

My numbers are what I am doing in 2 tablers, day in and day out, 3-4 days a week, 2 or 3 SnGs a day.

If you still think my calculation is wrong:

The payouts are 216, 162, 108, 54. Average payout finishing at 2.5 is 140.

Doing it the long way, .6*(140-33)-.4*(33) = .6*140-33. (You collect 140 60% of the time, pay 33 100% of the time). 84-33=51.

What does a 60% itm finish represent? There are 18 players to start, and a minimum of 3-4 of them are dead money, bluffing all-in on any decent sized pot that is checked to them, or calling pre-flop all-ins with hands as weak as AJ, Axs or KTs. Knock them out and with 4 places paid you only have 10 or 11 opponents to pass to get in the money...ie your random in the money percentage is in the high 20%s. (part of the reason for the number of awful players may be the time of day I play...before work hours M-F. A lot of these guys are always pushing for play to speed up, so they are obviously looking to get to work. Get one of the them in a heads up game or heads up at the end of a 2 tabler close to 9 am and they are pressing every hand.

Once you know who the all-iners are you are almost assured of doubling up sometime in the first two rounds, because no one else is calling them. By far the biggest piece of the 40% out of the money is when one of those guys has a real hand or sucks out on you early on.

From the leveraged stack those guys give you early on, tight aggressive play mixed with an occasional Axs or connected suiters in position vacuums up the chips...more than 1/2 the pots go unraised pre-flop once those all-iners are gone. It is easy to leverage the high 20% random finish into the low to mid-50s when you start with twice the chips so often.

Eeking out those extra few perecent is bubble play when you take some hits to the large stack when the blinds are big. Clamp down when you drop to 3rd place out of 6 or 7, playing only super-premium hands, and a couple of others will misplay their small stacks for you, going all-in against big stacks with low pair, etc.

It is boring as hell, but so is work. Too bad work pays more, or that I cant milk the 50 or 100 games for anywhere near that itm percentage.

BTW my in the money % on 1 tablers (3 places paid out of 9) is close to 75% but the buy in is high relative to a sub-2d place average finish, so they dont pay off as well.

I am not the only one doing it either. "you again" is the most common greeting when it gets down to 2 or 3 players fighting for the top prize.

maplepig · #12 09-05-2003, 10:17 AM

Hi coper, I remember that you also mentioned you can finish 60% of the time at party's single table tournmanet. Do you mind give out your player name for Star and Party? I'd like to watch you play and learn. Seriously, my result is far from yours and I can't think of much way to improve. Maybe your play can enlight me. thanks.

Bozeman · #13 09-05-2003, 01:10 PM

I guess I assumed that you were posting results relevant to the thread title.

Al_Capone_Junior · #14 09-05-2003, 01:53 PM

60% on two table tourneys and 75% on one table tourneys? At stars?

And you need to work?

AeonBlues · #15 09-05-2003, 08:12 PM

I was playing in $100 and $50 max buy in NL games on party, and making about $15 per hour, per table.

Now I pretty much play single table tourneys exclusively, and I'm averaging about +$20 for every $108 entry fee. Yah, my hourly rate has gone up....., but if they made a bigger NL game.... Also, while my hourly rate has improved, I am paying signifigantly more to the house, I'm paying over 100% more dollars per month. Honestly I beleive the there should be a $5 cap on the money that an internet poker site keeps for the tourney commision. Kind of like how they take 5% up to $3 in table stakes games. the single table tourneys are just too juicy for the house at the $100 buy in, I mean, they'er making $80 per game, and they don't have to do anyting.... I'm working hard for my hourly rate, and that $3 is a big impact in a tough game.

AeonBlues

maplepig · #16 09-05-2003, 11:51 PM

$8 is way too much. I play average 10 of them per day. that's $2400 to the house per month, plus they get no reward program for playing tournmanent games. If the game gets any tougher than now, the fee itself may kill the game.

Copernicus · #17 09-06-2003, 12:35 AM

The 75% one tablers were Party, and that was only the last month or so there. The 60% at Stars has been consistent for the 4 months Ive been playing there.

Do I need to work when I can make $50/hr playing? Since I make a lot more than that at my "real" job, and with a son about to enter college, yeah, I'll opt for the steady income.

If things are still as easy after he's out of school (hopefully he isnt going to go the 8 year route like I did!) then it would certainly make a nice supplemental retirement plan.

Unfortunately I dont expect it to remain as easy. The influx of tourney players due to WPT and WSOP on TV has made it that way. They see Gus Hansen playing trash at the final table, and they think "hey this game is easy, just go all in and collect the chips".

Games will get much tougher as those fishies run out of money and a lot of others actually learn how to play. Meanwhile its a nice way to fund entries into some big tourneys.

there is another thread started by KofM talking about one of his 2 tablers at party, where he called an all in and found himself facing the monster of 74o. They are not rare at all!

Copernicus · #18 09-06-2003, 12:38 AM

Sorry I jumped on you, I was more p'od at another post than yours, and didnt notice the heading. I did provide enough detail in my first one that you might have figured out the disconnect though!

Bozeman · #19 09-06-2003, 01:43 AM

Sorry, I usually don't make that mistake. Glad to see that you are doing excellent. I also see that my reply is a bit peevish, too, I guess I was angry at myself for being an idiot.

Scooterdoo · #20 09-06-2003, 02:14 AM

I play one table s&g games at Party. Mostly $50, but just started at $100. Get in the money about 50% of the time now. Biggest mistake is playing when you really don't have the full time to wait it out so sometimes you press too much. I feel I'm getting better each time. Ocassionally you face someone calling your all-in with crap and they draw on you. It's very frustrating. It almost makes you feel that it would be better to play against good players so your 'proper' poker strategy will work better.

Anyway, question... what is a two tabler? Does Party have them? I don't know about these.