I let it go.

[andyfox]

Gosh, I wish you'd post more frequently. An interesting bad beat story with lots to think about.

"I called a raise with 99 . . . The flop came 973 . . . At this point, I think I was in the lead."

-At this point, I know you're in the lead. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]


"she had no idea what she did wrong"

-Then she didn't deserve a berating. The one-player-to-a-hand rule, though, should have been explained to her. Politely.

"i have this little trait where, when I get into a heated discussion with somebody, and I know I'm right, I get a little steamed."

-Maybe the other guy knows he's right too. Steam is not an effective tool of pedagogy, as you know.

You're a good man, Josh.

Regards,
Andy

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
I let it go. No, I'm not talking about a hand. I'm talking about a well deserved verbal berating.

The hand in question was...I called a raise with 99 on the button in what ended up being a 7 handed pot.

The flop came 973, two diamonds. We capped it 5 ways on the flop. At this point, I think I was in the lead.

The turn was an 8, putting two hearts up there, as well as two diamonds. We capped it 5 ways. The guy who made it threebets here also made it threebets on the flop, so I think I'm still in the lead.

The river was the 5c, missing both flushes, but putting a 5789 on the board. It got checked to me, and I checked. Yes, I usually bet here, because anybody with a 6 would usually bet in a 29 big-bet pot. However, I thought that maybe a 6 would fear either T6 or JT, and maybe a hand like JT would check, going for the checkraise of a 6. So, anyhoo, I checked.

First person mucks, face down (later said 54d, and I believe him). Second person turns over T8o, for a pair of 8s. Third person turns over KTd, for a flush draw, turned straight draw, and river King high. Fourth person stares and stares and stares and stares.

And stares. And stares. Then goes to muck. Never showed his cards to the table. They are now face down, and going ot the muck.

Lady to his left sees his hand, and says "what are you doing, you have a straight?". He says "no, I needed a ten", she says "no, with your 6". He turns over J6o, and I quietly muck.

What I 'let go' was the verbal berating of the lady that she surely deserved. 29 Big Bet pot. Was a split second from being mine. And she opened her yap.

And I didn't say a thing. No, this isn't some sort of "I'm gonna let people walk all over me New Years Resolution". I was in a unique position. The ENTIRE table was on tilt. My EV in this game is roughly 0.93Through-The-Roofs.

And, well, i have this little trait where, when I get into a heated discussion with somebody, and I know I'm right, I get a little steamed. So, i decide to just not say anything right away, to keep it so that I'm THE player not on tilt.

I also tell myself to make sure I mention to her how out of line she was. As an aside, once the guy with J6o left the table (with 5 friggin racks!), the ENTIRE table berated her. she had no idea what she did wrong, and i was going to say something to her on my way out the door, but it was nice to see that the entire table decided to keep their mouths shut around the J6o-for-a-cap-on-a-973-flop-guy.

Just an interesting situation, I thought.

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the best post I've read on this forum in a while. Thanks.

scrub

[BarronVangorToth]

Josh,

Your actions were commendable. Great job -- something I wish I would do in your place, but I certainly wouldn't.

Kudos.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

[nolanfan34]

Great post.

If it were me, I'd be calling my lawyer with my one phone call right now.

[phifediggy]

wow. just wow.

[mosta]

I'm not clear on how she saw his cards if they were face down and going to the muck. I was in a small live tournament recently. An underset got all in against TPTK. Both hands tabled face up on the flop. the pair rivered trips and started jumping for joy while everyone at the table, inlcuding the opponent, patted him on the back. I stood up and said, No, that fills the other guy up. Was that a faux pas? "Cards speak" in card rooms generally. If you table your hand and misannounce it as a loser, the dealer corrects you and gives you the pot. Does it not apply in this case b/c he showed it only to her, or only accidentally exposed, partially, on the way to the muck? If he had tabled the hand and the dealer missed the straight, but the woman pointed it out to him, would that be the same? I thought not.

[Kevin J]

If you knew for sure his hand was still live, I think you did the right thing and agree with everyone else's admiration of your conduct. However..

In some card rooms a forward motion with face down cards constitutes a mucked/dead hand. If this was the case, you should've called it for a 29 big bet pot. Even if you were unsure about the rule, let the floor make the decision. If it was just a matter of you being in a charitable mood, you could have waited until you got home, and written a 29 big bet check to your favorite charity. So in that sense, I disagree with everyone else's admiration of what you did. Yes, you should always strive to keep a poor player happy, but it will take a long time to get 29 big bets back from him. There is also the matter of this lady needing to know that it is unethical behavior to coach another player while others are still in the hand. IMO-

[Kevin J]

Rick-

In the cardroom where you work (or worked?), what constitues a mucked hand? In the room I play in, any forward motion (with face down cards), is a mucked hand. There's a difference between "class" and outright charity.

[Philuva]

Could have been an angle from the woman. If I were her, I am sure I would rather those 29 big bets go to Mr. J6o than Mr. Josh W.

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
In the room I play in, any forward motion (with face down cards), is a mucked hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not the norm. "Hitting the muck" is usually the rule.

~D