Israel's Campaign of Targeted Assassanations Apparently is Working

[Gamblor]

The dire conditions in the territories and 30 years of occupation are its source.

And what is the source of these conditions?

[nicky g]

And there was me thinking it started with "thieving fanatics stealing Palestinian resources" and ended in "brutual occupation forces backing them up."

[Gamblor]

And there was me thinking it started with "thieving fanatics stealing Palestinian resources" and ended in "brutual occupation forces backing them up."

No Jewish village has ever been established on what you call "Palestinian" land. Never mind the fact that 37 years ago, the land was owned by Jordan, who subsequently lost it to the Israelis in the Six Day War.

Land confiscations only began after Arab terrorist attacks on Jewish villages started after 1967, and even then, land was confiscated only for military defence purposes and villager protection.

Incidentally, where were the Jewish terrorists when Jews were ethnically cleansed from Hebron, Shechem (Nablus), and Bethlehem, let alone the rest of the Arab world, after 1948? When they finally moved back to their more significant cities like Hevron and the Elon Moreh settlement outside Shechem, they were met with bombs and gunfire. Hence the IDF's confiscation of land to build military outposts and alternative routes for travel that didn't require passage through an Arab town, where gunfire was expected on civilian cars.

The difference is that Arafat has been promising his pals an Islamic state with an Arab majority over all of what is now Israel, and he has never accepted anything less.

[adios]

This would indicate that terrorism is a "top-down" problem. But yep improving the economic outlook does wonders.

[nicky g]

Mmm. And I suppose "security" demands that such "villages" be allocated ten times the water resources per capita that the local Palestinians get, for example? And for Israel to control Palestinian major reservoirs and aquifers after any withdrawal, as demanded in every solution presented by successive Israeli governments?

Listen, have the last word on this. We've debated such things 1000 times before and I wish we hadn't got into them again, as we never get anywhere and I'm more interested in discussing the Yassin events. Any thoughts on my response to your Yassin/bin Laden post?

I also have a question for you. I was under the impression that Hebrew was a spoken language in Israel but not in the Jewish diaspora, and assumed when I heard some people speaking Hebrew in a restaurant that they were from ISrael. But my wife and a friend of mine who lives in a largely Jewish area in London says that Hebrew is now often spoken in Jewish communities outside of Israel as an everyday language. Do you know if that's the case?

[andyfox]

No Jewish village has ever been established on what you call "Palestinian" land.


"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the boooks not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

Moshe Dayan, in Haifa, quoted by Ha'aretz, April, 4 1969

[andyfox]

Yes, things are working perfectly over there now.

[Gamblor]

I believe Dayan was referring to cities established pre-1967, not post-1967, as I was referring to. I'll check this out as I had not heard of it.

[Chris Alger]

Palestinian Red Crescent lists 1068 Palestinians killed by Israel during 2002 compared to 664 killed in 2003. By your logic, the efficacy of Palestinian terrorism can be quantified as a 38% decline in Palestinian deaths.

So since the terrorism on both sides is "working," there's nothing to worry about.

The conflict according to Prof. Pangloss.

[Gamblor]

Any thoughts on my response to your Yassin/bin Laden post?

Yassin was by no means a spiritual leader. Yassin's brand of 'spirituality' is the ideological and emotional fuel that drives Palestinian (and worldwide Islamic) terrorism. He called suicide terrorism a religious obligation, and even said about himself that "the day in which I will die as a shahid [martyr] will be the happiest day of my life." (Al-Quds, July 26, 1998)

Furthermore bin Laden is the acknowledged leader of a paramilitary outfit. He does not claim anything else.

He claims to be the liberator of Muslim lands, same as Yassin. He claims to be the savior of the Muslims, a soldier of the Muslims against the tyrannical reign of American terrorists.

Bin Laden has boasted of his involvement in planning attacks; Yassin denied he gave them anything other than his approval.

Didn't Bill Clinton deny having sex with Monica Lewinsky?

Bin Laden is hding in the remotest place on earth; Yassin lived openly at his house in Gaza.

His house in Gaza is pretty remote for a 20-year old Israeli in full combat gear.

Whether you see it or not, most people including the Israeli government up until recently, saw a clear difference between their status as "targets".

The Israeli government had been trying to assassinate him for years, including a botched attempt two years ago. But again, as new evidence is unearthed, opinions change.

As far as the Hebrew question goes, they were probably speaking Yiddish, a mix of German and old Hebrew that most Jews spoke in Eastern Europe before the 1940s. Orthodox Jews now, in Israel and abroad (who are still living in the 19th century) still speak in Yiddish because they feel Hebrew is only for religious use. On the other hand, 99% of Israeli emigres end up in North America or London, England. But I don't know of any non-Israeli/non-ex-Israeli who speaks Hebrew as a first language.

Incidentally, what is the difference between Great Britain, the UK, and England?