AA hand - Intended for newbies - Page 2

Redd · #11 09-21-2005, 07:26 PM

Call and reevaluate on the turn, planning to get in lots of bets. The case 4 is unlikely, and you're giving everyone a chance to hit their 6 outs to a second best hand, many of whom will go nuts once they hit.

aces_dad · #12 09-21-2005, 07:27 PM

I don't like 3betting the flop because:

- We face people with 2or less outs with 2 cold, likely folding people who will call one more

- If BB has a hand with 2 or less outs we're likely to slow him down and worst case have him fold either the flop or turn when we could keep firing away with a far worse hand than ours

- In the unlikely event BB does have a 4 we're now playing HU vs the one hand we can't beat and we've lost the overlay from all others drawing virtually dead

Aaron W. · #13 09-21-2005, 08:30 PM

I despise any play except calling the flop check-raise. But now what?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB raises, Hero calls, MP2 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, BB caps, Hero...

AdamL · #14 09-21-2005, 08:33 PM

Hero 5-bets. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

cold_cash · #15 09-21-2005, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I despise any play except calling the flop check-raise. But now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you underestimate the amount of bets many players will call on the flop with a hand like QJ or 77.

I mean, I see your point, but 3-betting this flop is far from awful, especially in this game.

*Edited 'cuz I'm not a newb. Sorry about that. (I think the above stuff is okay though, yeah?)

#16 09-21-2005, 09:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB is pretty new to the table, and from what you have seen, he's loose passive. MP2 is a little LAGgy. MP3 is an unknown.

What is your line for the rest of this hand? Why is your line a good one?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, BB raises, Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a newbie. I'll respond. BB is probably betting his small pair. I'm probably capping all the way to the river. More often than not, the case 4 is not being held, so max juice this +EV. OK, if I see runner, runner king, I might call a 3-bet on the river.

Aaron W. · #17 09-21-2005, 09:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I despise any play except calling the flop check-raise. But now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you underestimate the amount of bets many players will call on the flop with a hand like QJ or 77.

I mean, I see your point, but 3-betting this flop is far from awful, especially in this game.

*Edited 'cuz I'm not a newb. Sorry about that. (I think the above stuff is okay though, yeah?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry about it. Looking at how the hand all played out, I think it's a pretty straightforward hand and there weren't many spewy answers given, which was my real worry. After all... I've got the second nuts.

With regards to the 3-bet, I think the main idea here is to get as many bets into the pot as possible. There are three players left to act and I want to encourage them to call along. While some donks may peel with nothing, many donks can find a fold when it's another two bets to them. I want as many people around as possible so that someone can hopefully catch a card on the turn (because then they won't be able to fold). I stand to gain more by someone pairing up than I gain by squeezing them on the flop.

Guruman · #18 09-21-2005, 09:28 PM

:wookie response:

pfr is good, and we should be nothing but happy that we got soo many cold callers.

I don't think that the flop really lends us to WA/WB here, because of the vast number of hands that we are sooo far ahead of. I like a bet/raise/cap line here, since any pocket pair greater than 99 is coming, as are many aces.

I'd consider an unpaired 4 to be a pretty unlikely cold/calling hand, and all of the cold callers just called the flop anyway. Nothing to be worried about from them.

with that said:
BB saw the flop cheaply, and given the odds he was getting, he had he could have any 2. The check/raise suggests strength, and overpairs are now a little less likely since he didn't three-bet pf. He could still be pumping a suited Ace, KQo, a middle or lower pocket pair, or the four.

I three-bet and call a cap.

Since BB could have any pair, the turn will be difficult unless its either an A or a 4. Twos and threes are good too, since pocket twos and threes can't improve by catching another of that rank. I'd actually prefer a K or Q on the turn then something like a 5 or 7.

So, for the turn I'll cap if it falls A, 2, 3, 4, Q, or K. Anything else and I'll go WA/WB to resistance.

If we're heads up on the river I like bet/call since villain will take an agg line with AA, KK, QQ, and maybe JJ if they are still overpairs at this point.

#19 09-21-2005, 09:34 PM

Your relative position here absolutely sucks. You cant raise on 4th OR 5th street without forcing the field to call 2 BB cold.

3bet here on the flop for both value and information. Most players are sticking around now for the size of the pot anyway, and if BB reraises you you can start possibly considering crediting him for the case 4.... maybe =P

Remember, 2SB = 1BB

#20 09-21-2005, 09:53 PM

OK, I was spewing. It seems appropriate to ride the action wave on the flop, and at the same time, nobody is dropping. If an overcard falls on the turn, the action may cause lower cards to drop out. If BB bets out at the turn, I think it's safe to raise here. The pot is huge and small pairs may be unlikely to drop.