MLHE advise for 20/40 - crap?

[baronzeus]

I voted call before reading the response. KQ isn't looking great against his range and there's no reason to isolate him with this sort of hand, out of position. You can lead a lot flops into him and put BB in a tough spot as well.


PS this situation JUST came up in the game I was playing. He raises UTG, folded to me and I call, BB calls. I have KcQd, flop Jc9c8c, I bet, both call, turn Qh, I bet, BB calls, button folds...I ended up winning the hand.

[Danenania]

3-bet.

A.) A "good" player in a 5-handed Party 20/40 game has a much wider range than a good player in the MLHE book does. We have great equity against a 30/20 type's range here.

B.) Since he's a good player, there is a lot of value in making him fold weak A-high to us on a whole bunch of flops.

C.) Knocking the BB out is very important, both for taking his 1sb uncontested and vastly increasing our chances of taking pot without a SD postflop.

[baronzeus]

Just did a quick pokerstove against my UTG 5 handed range and it returned about 50/50. Being OOP sucks, but like others have said, using initiative to make him fold A high is good. However, you can also get into a lot of trouble postflop if you are dominated or run into a better hand.

Basically, use your own judgment, and make sure to take into account BB's nature in your decision. If he's the type to call down a lot, 3betting is bad in a lot of cases.

[Victor]

[ QUOTE ]
Just did a quick pokerstove against my UTG 5 handed range and it returned about 50/50. Being OOP sucks, but like others have said, using initiative to make him fold A high is good. However, you can also get into a lot of trouble postflop if you are dominated or run into a better hand.

Basically, use your own judgment, and make sure to take into account BB's nature in your decision. If he's the type to call down a lot, 3betting is bad in a lot of cases.

[/ QUOTE ]

a lot of tough players are not folding ace high very easily after the flop. thats why i prefer calling against many players. its cool if the bb comes along too since thats somewhat dead money.

[MAxx]

I voted fold, but I think it depends on what kind of good player he is, table dynamics, my image etc. If its a tyte pf good player, I'm prolly going to fold. If it is a laggier good player who respects my 3bets or is really likely to have a worse hand on avg...I'll 3bet.

[Victor]

3bet against a tag. call against a lag.

[Seether]

I call here, I think 3 betting just sets yourself up to lose too much money when either bb or utg has a big hand. Not to mention that if UTG is a decent player he will likely put you to the test on raggy flops. I think being OOP with this hand for 3 small bets against an UTG raiser is a losing proposition. Id rather let the bb come along for cheap and evaluate on the flop since you are going to need to make a pair majority of the time to win the pot with KQ here. I just dont think the UTG raiser is getting away from his hand on most flops, leaving you in a tough position on the turn where majority of the time you do not have a pair.

[StellarWind]

Anything could be right here depending on a more detailed read of both opponents:

Not all good players play a zillion hands from Button+2 and if you happen to be up against a pretty tight range it's not wrong to save your money and fold, especially if BB also plays well.

Calling should be profitable most of the time as a fit-or-fold effort. This is a strategy that you want to try cheaply and if you do manage to pair your hand then BB's money is looking pretty dead so there is no urgency in forcing him out preflop. Plus BB may not overcall preflop anyway, especially if he respects that your coldcall means that there are now two pretty good hands in the pot.

Raising is technically an incorrect answer to the question because while it is often the best play I wouldn't then agree that Villain is a good player. But if you match up well versus his range and he doesn't play really well postflop then isolating him could be the way to go. Just remember that sometimes when raising is profitable, calling is even more profitable.

[sammy_g]

In general, Ciaffone and Brier advocate cold-calling too often, but I don't think a call is so terrible here. All of the options are reasonable.

[wheelz]

hard to say without more of a read, but if all i knew where that he had tag stats i think i'd fold. i 3-bet it fairly often too though.