$50 NL - Ax suited

Hero bets $6</font>, UTG+1 calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises to $20</font>, Hero calls $14, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($58.75) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

so I lucked out and hit a flush on the turn, I decided to check again and let the villain hang himself with his own rope - he pushed - I called and I picked up a pot of $123 with my nut flush against his QQ PP.

Given that the consensus so far is I made a bad play preflop - I'd imagine that my calling the raise on the flop is also bad??

I called because he was LAG - I'd have folded to a reraise from UTG+1 and if I'd missed the turn I'd have folded to any decent bet

just because an A is the first letter in the halphabet doesnt mean you need to give it a love making session. its ok to fold an A sometimes. especially from an early position.

you're going to miss your flush draws more often than you will make them. puting all your money in every time you have the nut flush draw will lose you money in the end, not only that but half the time you will make your flush and it will be the 2nd best hand.

[4_2_it]

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Hero bets $6</font>, UTG+1 calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises to $20</font>, Hero calls $14, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($58.75) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

so I lucked out and hit a flush on the turn, I decided to check again and let the villain hang himself with his own rope - he pushed - I called and I picked up a pot of $123 with my nut flush against his QQ PP.

Given that the consensus so far is I made a bad play preflop - I'd imagine that my calling the raise on the flop is also bad??

I called because he was LAG - I'd have folded to a reraise from UTG+1 and if I'd missed the turn I'd have folded to any decent bet

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You sucked out g00t. You realize you lose money 3 out of every 4 times in this situations, right? I doubt you will get a sucker to call your all in bet every time you chase a flush down.

What is that minibet pf??? Then how do you possibly consider a 8x bb call pf to be "seeing the flop cheap"? Am I blind, or did he raise to 4$?

And you continue by calling a huge bet on the flop thereby no drawing to your odds!

[FreakDaddy]

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Normally I'd raise this flop (I'm liking it a lot) as I'm OOP tho and 1 of my opponents is loose I'm thinking about check/calling a decent raise from Villain or check raising a min raise from either player - hoping to fold out one of them and get this HU for the turn. ...but then I'm first to act and should I really pass up control of the pot?

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That's why you shouldn't raise drawing hands OOP. You can get away with it SOMETIMES at this level is your in EMP, but as you move up you WILL be spewing chips.

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I rarely if ever limp - and never limp from EP.

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These two statements taken together are mutually exclusive. Limping in would be seeing the flop as cheaply as possible. Raising with them is KILLING your implied odds.


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because I won't limp from EP a min raise is as cheap as I can see this flop without breaking my own rules, I only called the reraise preflop as I was sure Villain was trying to force me out with a semi bluff. As it turned out I was wrong - but very lucky.

Why does minraising with this hand PF from EP KILL my implied odds? - because I am asking to be isolated?? - because my raise may force out weak players and as I am betting on hitting a flush I want as many players in as possible?

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What is that minibet pf??? Then how do you possibly consider a 8x bb call pf to be "seeing the flop cheap"? Am I blind, or did he raise to 4$?

And you continue by calling a huge bet on the flop thereby no drawing to your odds!

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OK OK you got me on the odds - I was so sure in my read that Villain was bluffing me off the pot that I chased my flush when I ought to have let it go. If I hadn't hit my flush on the turn I'd have folded and my bad play would have cost me 24BB.

regards to the PF call - 4$ was only "only" 4x my original bet and again because Villain was LAG I wasn't respecting his raises at all...

Thanks for all the feedback - I am learning lots today... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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just because an A is the first letter in the halphabet doesnt mean you need to give it a love making session. its ok to fold an A sometimes. especially from an early position.

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I fold Aces lots of the time A9-A2o go directly into the bin tho I usually play AJ - A2s - I raise or Reraise from anywhere with AK suited or otherwise - will call a small bet pf with AQ - will raise with AQ suited... I might be in love with Axsuited right now - but not just any old ace.

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not only that but half the time you will make your flush and it will be the 2nd best hand.

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I thought that a nut flush will win the vast majority of the time - even if the board pairs it doesn't mean that someone else has a boat - or am I missing a point here in that the only time 'll ever get action against my nut flush playing against better players are the times that they do have me beaten?

[mulebennett]

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or am I missing a point here in that the only time 'll ever get action against my nut flush playing against better players are the times that they do have me beaten?

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yes. with a 3-flush on a paired board, you are more often than not only getting action (from a good player) with something that will beat you (i.e. full house or rarely quads)

[theweatherman]

matrix.

First of all you are a LAG yourself, you seem a tad condesending towards them as terrible players. Just a little perspective.

A min raise is terrible because it acomplishes nothing. I cannot force your opponent to make a mistake, which is the only way to profitably raise. His reraise pf could be a bluff, but you dont have a hand. You are playing A rag oop with your only real hope of winning to be a flush or a miracle flop. Fold preflop.

So you didn't fold preflop, well you have four diamonds with an overcard. You semi bluff the flop (You need to bet more than half pot here to semi bluff, since you are donk betting a pf RE- raiser.) The villian reraises (AGAIN!) and you still put him on a bluff? That is poor hand reading. Thinking he is on a lower flush draw is a little crazy, you really think he plays this way with a flush draw? He would most likely take the turn with good odds.

This hand is a very good example of why people on this forum make money on party poker (dont get excited, your the reason.) Although you say you will fold the turn if you miss, you have still thrown away 24 bb on a crap hand. Chasing flushes and draws will hurt you tremendously in the long run. Although you made a lot of money THIS hand you have lost a lot of EV by playing a donkastic line.

It WILL catch up with you, and you should stop playing luck box poker and start learning the game.