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#11
10-23-2005, 01:31 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I don't bet this river if I'm planning to call a check/raise. Just check. [/ QUOTE ] You don't think the river bet would be for value then? [/ QUOTE ] Not if we call a C/R. [/ QUOTE ] I understand, I value bet to get a call, not a check raise. And FWIW, I would have called the c/r, but I hated to overcall. [/ QUOTE ] Of course you didn't plan to get check-raised, but you did. The value comes in worse hands calling your bet. What worse hands C/R here, or even call a C/R? Since you call the C/R, some of the value in your bet is lost. 
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#12
10-23-2005, 01:35 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
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What worse hands C/R here, or even call a C/R? [/ QUOTE ] Dude, what worse hand even CALLS a bet, here? 99? Maybe AJ, but that's going to take a special kind of donk after the action in the hand. Now, of course, I can't stand it. What're the results?
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#13
10-23-2005, 02:54 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
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I don't bet this river if I'm planning to call a check/raise. Just check. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed. That king is a third broadway making a straight possible, a 3rd flush card, and an overcard when there is a LRR hanging around. Take the free showdown.
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#14
10-23-2005, 10:15 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
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Now, of course, I can't stand it. What're the results? [/ QUOTE ] Both players showed Ace effing Jack! I broke my first wireless mouse today
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#15
10-23-2005, 10:26 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
So, YHIG. And, I can't believe how psychic I am...Internet roulette, here I come!
I think that you don't just earn $Sklansky when you play right and lose, I think you also get it when you win...so you got the 21.50BB pot plus, lets say, 3 extra BB for not 3-betting the river. EDIT BELOW: Just re-read the thread and caught this: [ QUOTE ] And FWIW, I would have called the c/r, but I hated to overcall. [/ QUOTE ] You didn't actually fold for one more closing the river, did you? For the love of Pete, how I hate bet/fold on the river.
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#16
10-23-2005, 10:28 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
[ QUOTE ]
So, YHIG. And, I can't believe how psychic I am...Internet roulette, here I come! I think that you don't just earn $Sklansky when you play right and lose, I think you also get it when you win...so you got the 21.50BB pot plus, lets say, 3 extra BB for not 3-betting the river. [/ QUOTE ] Hmm... he didn't exactly sound happy. I imagine he folded - hence nearly breaking his mouse.
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#17
10-23-2005, 10:32 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm... he didn't exactly sound happy. I imagine he folded - hence nearly breaking his mouse. [/ QUOTE ] Bet/fold on the river is one thing when you're OOP...I don't like it, but there are situations where I'll do it. But with position on the field?! Figure it out before you bet, people! If you're going to feel compelled to fold when you get check-raised on the river, then don't bet!
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#18
10-23-2005, 10:34 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] EDIT: Way the flop action went, it looks like he's got KK. [/ QUOTE ] Why, he checked and called. It was more played like he had AK [/ QUOTE ] UTG check-raised the river. UTG+1 check/called. With the limp/3-bet preflop, I lean to KK
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#19
10-23-2005, 10:35 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Hmm... he didn't exactly sound happy. I imagine he folded - hence nearly breaking his mouse. [/ QUOTE ] Bet/fold on the river is one thing when you're OOP...I don't like it, but there are situations where I'll do it. But with position on the field?! Figure it out before you bet, people! If you're going to feel compelled to fold when you get check-raised on the river, then don't bet! [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? I'm headed to bed and won't have time to reply to this, but betting at any point on the river does not mean we have to call a raise or check/raise. In contrast to you, I would say that if you feel the need to call a check/raise, don't bet. The key question: How often are we good if we get check/raised? Results on this particular hand are not important.
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#20
10-23-2005, 10:58 PM
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Re: Crappy river card, can I overcall?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hmm... he didn't exactly sound happy. I imagine he folded - hence nearly breaking his mouse. [/ QUOTE ] Bet/fold on the river is one thing when you're OOP...I don't like it, but there are situations where I'll do it. But with position on the field?! Figure it out before you bet, people! If you're going to feel compelled to fold when you get check-raised on the river, then don't bet! [/ QUOTE ] Are you serious? I'm headed to bed and won't have time to reply to this, but betting at any point on the river does not mean we have to call a raise or check/raise. In contrast to you, I would say that if you feel the need to call a check/raise, don't bet. The key question: How often are we good if we get check/raised? Results on this particular hand are not important. [/ QUOTE ] I think that the river provides some good discussion points. At first I was going to leave my decision in question to whether I should bet out or not on the river. I didn't however because I felt that betting there had enough value that it would be +EV in the long run. I was actually more cnecerned with the overcall. According to TOP, you must have a much stronger hand to overcall then to just call. Since I had problems putting UTG on a hand, I was even more bothered by UTG+1's cold call of the river raise. At the time the proper decision was that I was very close to not beating BOTH players 1 in 21 times. Obivously after then hand, I took several notes.
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