Hmm, not sure. Do I suck? KQo

[MRBAA]

I'd raise the KQ pretty much every time against a "typical" low limit opponent. They'll come in at the bargain price with all kinds of garbage AND you have position. This is a straight value raise.

[sfer]

I'll raise 55 in the BB if the it's folded to the SB and he limps. KQo is an autoraise in this situation. This isn't a steal--it's for value. You've got position and the likely best hand.

[CrackerZack]

You're 99 reasoning is sound. Its not a bad "tie them to the pot" raise but in LL that is often unnecessary. In mid-limits its often unnecessary. This one is real close because your set value is almost there and put that with the fact your hand is a good one, I think I probably raise it.

KQ is just a whole other ballgame here. You have a big headsup hand and position. I'd be shocked to see Ax or any pair not raised here. You're gonna have 2 bigger cards than his 2 cards and may even be dominating if he has Kx or Qx almost every time.

[Randy Burgess]

Okay, I'm all alone here. And having done a Poker Probe it looks like KQ is very roughly a 60/40 favorite against all but a pair or an Ace-high. But one reason I still don't think of it as an "automatic" raise is that I see a fair number of SB-to-BB limps where the limper is trapping. I'd rather know something about the player than assume I'm best here.

Maybe more important, saying that KQ is an auto-raise in this spot assumes you know how to play well head-up, not just on the flop but preflop also -- which most low-limit hold'em players don't. They get a lot of ring experience, but very little head-up experience. Just to take an example, you're saying that an additional reason to raise here is that you have position. In fact position is less important head-up than it is with three players - but I wouldn't expect you to know this without more head-up hold'em experience than I know you have.

FYI, your take on "typical" low-limit players applies only online, right? Most casino players are very aware that the low-limit rake is brutal, so they chop, whereas there is no possibility of chopping online. Online players pay very little attention to rake and the rake is lower to begin with. Even in a club game with a time-charge rather than a rake, most players probably won't dick around with limping a dubious small blind.

[blackaces13]

If you sat down at a 6 max table online and after a little bit it got down to just you and a weak player being the only 2 left at the table and you got KQ on the button wouldn't you raise it?

Lets assume that the game doesn't make the button the SB but rather the Big. I believe that Party actually does this even though it is incorrect.

[Randy Burgess]

Actually, for headup play, it's always correct for the BB to be the button - unless I'm misunderstanding you somehow.

I'll admit that I've been overly provocative in this thread so far. The truth is, if I know for sure the SB is limping something trashy and is a weak player, I'm definitely raising him with KQ.

But having said that, I think you need a plan for what you'll do next. And I think most ring players don't stop and consider what their plan will when it's a small, head-up pot. I've played maybe 20 hours of strictly head-up hold'em for money, all of it online. That's not many hours but it's enough for me to have some basic ideas of how to play this situation. I've also done some reading about head-up limit play, although there's not much written about it.

I don't know what Guido's plan here was. We don't know if he was lucky or unlucky to make the third nut flush on the river - at least, I haven't seen any results posted yet. Given that he was having a bad session, I'd argue that checking preflop was the wiser course of action. I could go into detail but I think this thread is dragging out too long.

The other thing is, you postulated a short-handed table that has gotten down to head-up play with you and a weak opponent. This is a totally different situation than a ring game where everyone has folded to the SB. When you play hand after hand head-up, it becomes a very psychological game of reading patterns, switching gears, etc. There's a whole tempo and rhythm that is completely absent from the occasional head-up play in a ring game.

[blackaces13]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, for headup play, it's always correct for the BB to be the button

[/ QUOTE ]


Are you sure? I think that in HU the button is the SB and therefore acts first before the flop and 2nd on all other rounds. This is how it is in SNGs anyway but on Party the system doesn't alter the blinds for heads up on a regular ring table.

[Randy Burgess]

Check out the short-handed section in HPFAP. They talk about head-up there and that's how they describe it. That's the only way I've heard it being done, but I haven't played SNGs.

[Nate tha' Great]

The preflop raise is fine. You'd really rather he fold his blind rather than complete, and to the extent that raising with a reasonable hand is a deterrant to his seeing the flop cheaply on future streets, I think it makes a lot of sense. I used to knuckle in these spots more frequently, figuring that I'd rather conceal my hand, but then I decided that, against the sort of opponent who likes to open-complete a lot on the SB (most of these guys are calling stations), I want to take my value where I can get it.

Flop bet is routine.

On the turn you have an interesting choice. Against an aggressive player who is capable of (i) Check-raising; (ii) Betting out on the river as a bluff, I'm usually inclined to take the free card, and sometimes check-call the river with an unimproved A or KQ high. This guy, I'm guessing, is more passive, and I think the combination of charging a weaker hand to draw (he could have something as weak as J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] here), having some equity in the pot from my overcard and flush draws, and probably procuring a free showdown, pushes it to a bet.

On the river, I think you'd definitely raise if you held the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and definitely call with the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Calling is probably a small mistake, but not a huge one.

[Guido]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that he was having a bad session, I'd argue that checking preflop was the wiser course of action.

[/ QUOTE ]
This makes absolutely no sense to me [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Most of the time I bet the flop and depending on the board also the turn, like in this hand.

Guido