One limper, TT on the button with 18BBs...

[45suited]

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3) I get called SO OFTEN by small PPs or one overcard because it looks like such a steal

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This is a good thing. You are atleast a 2:1 favorite vs the 1 overcard, and 4:1 vs the dominated underpair.

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Yes, it's great thing. That's the whole point of pushing here.

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Pushing with this many BB is really bad. The only hands that call you are going to be the ones that beat you with the exception of maybe AK. That means when you get called you are either severely dominated, or slightly better than a coinflip.

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This is so wrong for the 22s and below. You will be called by one overcard hands and lower PPs here so often it's unbelievable. And as far as overpairs, if someone has JJ+, I'm either losing my whole stack or getting severely crippled with TT here anyway.

The whole point of my post was this: At the lower levels, rather than trying FPS plays (which in rare cases do have merit) such as the PVS, it is better to make a play like this, which I consider a "Fake PVS"... It looks so much like a steal, and at the lower levels the guys with A4s or 55 who don't understand the gap concept or are just plain curious, cannot help but force themselves to call you.

Again, my stack size is such that if I happen to run into JJ+, I'm pretty screwed no matter how I play it.

Playing TT this way in this situation (where a normal 3BB + 1 limper raise is ~25% of my stack) is incredibly +EV. Give it a shot at the 22s and below and you'll be amazed how often you double up.

I would say that I get called here 70% of the time, and of those times, the vast majority of the time, my hand is way ahead pre-flop.

Think about it: the common reasoning (correctly) says not to try stuff like the PVS very often at the lower levels because the fish ARE MORE LIKELY TO CALL YOU. That's what makes this play so great.

[schwza]

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I would say that I get called here 70% of the time

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no way.


how big a stack would you need before you didn't push?

[schwza]

i like a raise to 175. there's some chance you're winning the pot now. and if you don't, you're probably playing heads up in position with a better hand.

[GtrHtr]

I'd limp this hand. I think the most I'd raise this hand based on reads is 3xBB.

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2) I really don't want to see a flop


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Why not? Limp and hope for a board with a T and an A. Money. If you miss the flop, easy fold after limping.

[45suited]

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how big a stack would you need before you didn't push?

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I'm right around the edge in the hand that I posted. I think that people aren't really thinking the hand through.

Yes, I would have position after the flop. But the normal raise of 200 takes me down to 685. There's lots of flops that I have to play very carefully. Even if I push and everyone folds, I've added t125 to my stack (+14%).

But consider the hand in question. I got called by a better hand than I usually do, 88. The flop came with two broadways. Am I doubling up after a normal raise and that flop? Probably not. I might even get bluffed off the best hand. Put yourself in the villain's position when I push pre-flop. This hand was not a great example because he had a real hand.

But so often, guys at the 11s and 22s want to make great reads or they're just curious. I seriously get called by 44, Ace-rag, suited aces all the time here. And again, the argument that I might run into an overpair is just silly - I'm screwed any way that I play this hand if that's the case.

I'm really surprised that nobody has said that they like this. How can people love the PVS and not love a value push that appears to be a PVS? Guys WILL call so often here with hands that you dominate that it is unbelievable.

I should also add that the argument that "AK might call me" is one that I also don't get. I'll take TT vs AK any day of the week, especially in this spot of the game where I need to start accumulating chips.

[45suited]

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I'd limp this hand. I think the most I'd raise this hand based on reads is 3xBB.

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Limp??? I've got 885 pre-flop. There's 125 out there already. I've got what is almost assuredly the best hand, why would I limp and play for set value against 2 or 3 opponents.

I keep forgetting that there are so many people on this forum that think that JJ is a marginal hand. I can only imagine how weak TT is viewed.

I'm making this play because:

1) The 125 out there is significant to my stack and

2) I've got a very strong hand that is still likely to be
called by the idiots at the 11s and 22s if I push,
particularly because my push looks like a PVS

[45suited]

That's fine if nobody likes this, I'm just saying for any player struggling at this level, make value plays like this, not FPS plays with weak hands.

The fish will call more often than you think. And it's never a bad thing to have all your money in with the best hand pre-flop. Trust me on this one...

[vinyard]

Interesting when I see this play at the 800 chip games I think that its somebody with 55-TT, possibly JJ who doesn't want to see a flop. I had chalked it up to small sample size that my TT and even 99 are way ahead as often as they are when I call the all-in.

[45suited]

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Interesting when I see this play at the 800 chip games I think that its somebody with 55-TT, possibly JJ who doesn't want to see a flop. I had chalked it up to small sample size that my TT and even 99 are way ahead as often as they are when I call the all-in.

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Don't get me wrong, Vinyard, I'm not doing it with 55. I can play post-flop, at least better than the typical fish at the lower levels. But when you do it with TT, you will get called by the guy with 55 who is likely folding on alot of flops. It's really a great spot, IMO.

[GtrHtr]

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I'd limp this hand. I think the most I'd raise this hand based on reads is 3xBB.

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Limp??? I've got 885 pre-flop. There's 125 out there already. I've got what is almost assuredly the best hand, why would I limp and play for set value against 2 or 3 opponents.

I keep forgetting that there are so many people on this forum that think that JJ is a marginal hand. I can only imagine how weak TT is viewed.

I'm making this play because:

1) The 125 out there is significant to my stack and

2) I've got a very strong hand that is still likely to be
called by the idiots at the 11s and 22s if I push,
particularly because my push looks like a PVS

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Ok, TT is a "marginal hand"

vs 66+, AJo+ it (TT) is 53% favorite (JJ is 58% FWIW). If you're called you are a coin flip at best w/ TT.

Regarding the donks at the 11s and 22s - sure.

How is 125 chips significant to you at this level?