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#11
11-26-2003, 07:53 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
It is unfortunate that the button folded b/c I would have liked to know what he had as I almost am positive he did not have top pair.
Now, as far as not getting a free card? I'm not saying it guarantees it, but you might. IN fact, in these situations I almost like check-raising flop and then capping it b/c it gives a better chance at a free card on turn. Further, if you do check-raise flop and the heart hits on turn and you don't bet it, more likely the button and cutoff bet out at turn and you get two bets there, then a possible check-raise on river. This all depends heavily on your opponents though. 
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#12
11-26-2003, 07:53 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
[ QUOTE ]
It is extremely unlikely that you are going to win this hand unimproved [/ QUOTE ] I didn't plan to [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. [ QUOTE ] so try to get as much money into the pot now without having to put in an extra bet [/ QUOTE ] Good thinking, I think that is the biggest advantage of calling. I get the same with less. But what if 1 other limper called? Hmmm, diffecult.
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#13
11-26-2003, 08:05 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
[ QUOTE ]
in these situations I almost like check-raising flop [/ QUOTE ] Why? You don't want to drive the players out. By betting and 3-betting, hopefully people will stick to there hands because they already put something in the pot and the pot is bigger. [ QUOTE ] then capping it b/c it gives a better chance at a free card on turn [/ QUOTE ] You cap the flop and a non scary card comes on the turn and you check, with 2 or 3 players behind you, I don't think you can see the river for free more then 10% of the time.
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#14
11-26-2003, 08:20 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
In the specific situation you posted, I would almost always just call the flop raise. You're still a drawing hand, so you need multiple people along with you. Your raise forces people to call two cold, which of course makes them more likely to fold.
If you had specifically say the 3 through 8 of [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] instead of the 2, I think there might be a better case for 3-betting, since you might clean up your Ace outs (getting hands like AT to fold). In the hand posted, though, you don't want to do that, since if an ace falls you have 2-pair and will *beat* hands like AT -- so you want them to stick around.
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#15
11-26-2003, 08:23 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
[ QUOTE ]
IN fact, in these situations I almost like check-raising flop and then capping it b/c it gives a better chance at a free card on turn. [/ QUOTE ] What sort of free card should cost you 2BB? In the sense of seeing the river cheaply (ie getting a free card), you are better off check-calling and paying only 1.5BB. Plus you drive out all the people who would pay you off when you make your hand by this play.
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#16
11-26-2003, 08:45 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
I agree with you. After I played the hand the way I did, I thought calling probably was best but I wasn't sure. I just moved from Stars to Party, I heard great things about that site. Calling stations all over the place... at that time I thought 2 or all 3 might call 2 more SB. Obviously I was wrong but I still wasn't sure about the best play.
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#17
11-26-2003, 08:55 PM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
At Gomez's request, here I am!
Cap the nut flush draw on the flop every friggin' time. With position in a multiway pot, I agree. However, you have little chance of your 3-bet buying you a free card on the turn, and in this case your 3-bet is making multiple players call 2 bets, so you may not get any value off of the raise either. So the two of the there reasons to pump a nut flush draw on the flop (free card potential, value, and deception) are not with you in this case. The only positive I can see here is that your hand is disguised should you hit on the turn. I like calling in this particular hand. BTW, I wouldn't have check-raised a K-high flop with my nut flush draw. If your opponents are even slightly observant, they probably noticed that you're a tight player, and that you wouldn't limp in UTG with a K. Then again, maybe I'm giving them too much credit. GoT
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#18
11-27-2003, 05:54 AM
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Re: 3-bet or call the raise on the flop with the nut flush draw?
Thanks GOT and Gomez!
[ QUOTE ] Cap the nut flush draw on the flop every friggin' time. With position in a multiway pot, I agree. [/ QUOTE ] Me too. [ QUOTE ] I like calling in this particular hand. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, I think that's best in this case. Even at Party [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Thanks for your advice, I appreciate it.
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