20-40 Hand

[afish]

This is a bad justification for limping that comes out of HPFAP. The main reason to limp preflop is so you can get someone to bet into you on the flop, and you can raise to clear the field. I believe Sklansky has clarified that that is the reason to limp. In my opinion, the value of limping is much less than charging junk an extra bet preflop.

[Jeffage]

Look, I understand I likely have the best hand with AQ. With 2 limpers, I'm raising. Three sure. Four, possibly. 5 or more...nah, I'll look at a flop. Why double the size of the pot on a hand that doesn't play well multiway when I know we're seeing the flop 8 ways? I'm not getting that much value there and it has postflop disadvantages.

I'm not saying raising here is the worst play in the world. I just don't think it's optimal. Leave it to me to turn a run-of-the-mill hand into the preflop debate of the century.

Jeff

[Kurwood Derby]

[ QUOTE ]
Look, I understand I likely have the best hand with AQ. With 2 limpers, I'm raising. Three sure. Four, possibly. 5 or more...nah, I'll look at a flop. Why double the size of the pot on a hand that doesn't play well multiway when I know we're seeing the flop 8 ways? I'm not getting that much value there and it has postflop disadvantages.

I'm not saying raising here is the worst play in the world. I just don't think it's optimal. Leave it to me to turn a run-of-the-mill hand into the preflop debate of the century.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats because you happen to be absolutely correct and its beyond the comprehension of these donkeys as to why that's so. Ed Miller tells then to raise all their marginal hands and they're all getting their butts greased up good for him.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Fish:

See my post above and you will see exactly what HPFAP says.

Best wishes,
mason

[dopp16]

i don't like the raise preflop, i think limpin against 8 players is probably optimum

[BurnsvilleCardClub]

Typical player would not bet out the turn with his set knowing that atleast 1/8 limpers would be holding an ace and bet the turn for him so he could c/r his set. So no set for him. Most likely A-weak or flushdraw. Definitely raise this and then fold to a three bet.

[lil feller]

[ QUOTE ]
Typical player would not bet out the turn with his set knowing that atleast 1/8 limpers would be holding an ace and bet the turn for him so he could c/r his set. So no set for him. Most likely A-weak or flushdraw. Definitely raise this and then fold to a three bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a player who will only 3 bet you if you're drawing dead this is probably ok, but that defination doesn't apply to a lot of online players.

Against an unknown i'd call the turn and raise/bet any non heart river.

lf

[Victor]

raise pf. after reading some writing and some sims by fekali i am convinced raising hands like aq and ak as the best way preflop even in super loose games.

otherwise i call down.

[amulet]

i raise preflop. and depending on the opponent, i call down or fold. there are a lot of ways to be behind, but if you call you will see by his response if he was taking advantage of a scary board or has a big hand. vs a tight player i fold. i think you are probably beat, given how many saw the flop and that he lead into a huge field..

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
20-40 game on PP. I have AQo on the button. 5 people limp. I limp. The SB and BB come. 8 to the flop (good game). Flop is 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (I have no hearts). Everyone checks. The turn is the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Now the SB bets and everyone folds to me. SB is unknown. Your play?

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

raise and call on river, if SB bets. If you're re-raised on turn, same thing. If he calls and checks river...I'd bet for value.

All of this assumes no heart on river....