Bellagio 15/30 A3s - Page 2

bobbyi · #11 01-19-2005, 06:19 PM

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If you check the river do you think the button would ever bluff at the pot without a pair?

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No. Against three people, two of whom are very loose and have called all the way, he will never pick up this pot with a bet, and he knows that. I have been betting all the way and then check when the ace shows up, which he would interpret to mean that I have a decent pair but not an ace (he would probably expect me to have something like QJ). He should expect that even in the unlikely event that both other players fold, I will call with whatever I've been in there with and was willing to bet on a drawless flop into six people including the pf raiser. In addition, the only hand I think he can have that would make it this far and has no pair is KQ, and he might not even have raised with that preflop, especially offsuit.

Stork · #12 01-19-2005, 06:28 PM

I like the preflop, flop, and turn. River, you must think you have the button beat at least 2/3 of the time to bet here, and I'm not sure if you do. I would probably check the river.

I was suprised to see that you would often raise A3s after limpers preflop. For me it's an easy limp, raising seems a bit overaggressive here.

brick · #13 01-19-2005, 06:28 PM

Don't you think he would have raised a big pair at some point? Or do you think he got scared when the 6 came and just called?
It sounds like if he doesn't have a bit pair then you're toast. (except maybe ATs) would he raise preflop that?

If you're think he has Ace-big then just check and call.
If you think he has a pair, then bet the river.

PS, Did the loose player check-raise with a 6? Because that would be one tricky play (and post).

bobbyi · #14 01-19-2005, 07:01 PM

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I was suprised to see that you would often raise A3s after limpers preflop. For me it's an easy limp, raising seems a bit overaggressive here.

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When I said I would often raise, I was referring to the exact situation, not to A3s in general (which I very rarely raise with, although in general I think I undervalue suited aces). With a bunch of very loose players limping and me in the cutoff with a reasonably tight player on the button who respects my raises, I will raise with almost any hand I am going to play. Buying the button is very important to me, more so than I think it is to most people on this forum. Against limpers this loose, I'm not really giving anything up in immediate ev since any playable hand (even those that thrive on implied odds) should win close enough to its fair share against people who are capable of limping with trash. Once it looked like the button was folding anyway, my reason for raising went away, which is why I just limped. I would almost never raise A3s or A2s behind limpers once the possiblity of buying the button was gone. Since I am concerned that I may undervalue suited aces, I wanted to confirm that I had been doing the right thing there, and from the responses, it looks like I have.

Stork · #15 01-19-2005, 07:08 PM

Yeah, I just think A3s is a little to weak to raise, I think it is too much of a speculative hand for a raise to be more profitable then a call. My call/raise cutoff point in this type of situation is probably A8s.

Gamblor · #16 01-19-2005, 07:32 PM

Sorry, I misread the post.

On the flop, you want to bet and hope the button raises and you get lots of folds.

brick · #17 01-19-2005, 07:33 PM

Dah, This means I was wrong. ugh.

Gamblor · #18 01-19-2005, 07:34 PM

Do not, I repeat, do not check the flop.

BET.

Big pot. Eliminate people. Hope the button raises.

Gamblor · #19 01-19-2005, 07:35 PM

Do you see no value in betting so that the button raises and eliminates a bunch of people in a pot that's approaching big?

bobbyi · #20 01-19-2005, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do not, I repeat, do not check the flop.

BET.

Big pot. Eliminate people. Hope the button raises.

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This was pretty much by thinking at the time. If the button was the kind of guy who would raise this flop with overcards like AK, the bet would be automatic. However, I was almost certain that he wouldn't raise unless he had a pair. Honestly, I'm not sure if I've ever played with anyone who would raise AK on this flop in this scenario, even though it would be a fine play. Perhaps I don't play in games that are as tough as the ones that other people here play. Anway, if he is going to call with AK and raise with overpairs, is a bet still right? My thinking was that he would also check behind if he held AK and I checked, and I didn't want to see this flop check around.