44 raises limpers from the Button

[Carmine]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that doesn't like that preflop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Another reason I like the raise is because of the "check to the raiser" mentality of internet play you can often get to see the turn card for free the times you whif on the flop.

[CallMeIshmael]

[ QUOTE ]
With 3 limpers and 2 posters, I like it a lot.

Not Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the turn gets me heads up with the CO turn bettor

[/ QUOTE ]

It does?

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

What hands are going to call 2 BB cold on that turn? The only hands I would be concerned about are gut shots or a bigger pair hitting a 2-outer. I dont think anyone is drawing to the open ended straight and I think the fields as a whole has very few outs against my set. It seems more profitable to call the turn.

With 10.6 BB in the pot my raise gives 5:1 odds. A hand like TT,JJ,QQ,KK, 99, 88 would more likely incorrectly call one bet getting 10:1 rather than 2 cold.

I also dont want to knock out an ace/bad kicker that is drawing dead. This type of hand might not call 2 cold here but will pay off another bet on the river.

What about QJ, KJ, KT, and other hands that will might call the turn bet drawing dead. Each of those might call a river bet if they hit a big pair. Do I want these hands to fold to 2-cold on the turn or call 1 each? drawing next to dead?

Again I ask - Why raise the turn?

[flopmonster]

I don't see the value in this preflop raise. Can someone enlighten me?

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see the value in this preflop raise. Can someone enlighten me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Study this hand.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
What hands are going to call 2 BB cold on that turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because anyone with an Ace will call you the vast majority of the time -- so will 56, and often, so will gutshots. None of those hands are calling on the river, though (with the exception of the Ace).

I think you're making a rather large mistake if you'll assume that QJ or KJ will call one bet on the turn here -- if you're up against the sort of player that calls the turn with undercards, I don't see them having that difficult of a time calling two bets cold with a fairly wide range of hands.

This isn't an easy board to get many more bets out of, but the hands that are going to call the turn for one bet are reasonably likely to call the turn for two bets, and are much more likely to call two bets on the turn than one bet on the turn and one bet on the river.

Rob

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hands are going to call 2 BB cold on that turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because anyone with an Ace will call you the vast majority of the time -- so will 56, and often, so will gutshots. None of those hands are calling on the river, though.

I think you're making a rather large mistake if you'll assume that QJ or KJ will call one bet on the turn here -- if you're up against the sort of player that calls the turn with undercards, I don't see them having that difficult of a time calling two bets cold.

This isn't an easy board to get many more bets out of, but the hands that are going to call the turn for one bet are reasonably likely to call the turn for two bets, and are much more likely to call two bets on the turn than one bet on the turn and one bet on the river.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

Your stuff is g00t.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[PokerProdigy]

I still don't like the preflop raise, even though it is still a profitable play, I think the even more profitable play (the one that is optimal strategy) is to just call preflop.

Good flop bet.

I say raise the turn because you should push your hand for maximum value, and you will probably get some people to cold call the raise in a low limit game, and there is NO gaurantee they'll overcall anyway. Plus why give someone the correct odds to draw at an inside straight draw?

Nice bet on the river.

[ThePimpulator]

Doesnt not raising the turn kind of negate the point of raising preflop? The whole reason for the preflop raise is to give people what they think are good odds later to stay longer than they should.

[pokerstudAA]

Now this reasoning makes alot of sense.
[ QUOTE ]
Doesnt not raising the turn kind of negate the point of raising preflop? The whole reason for the preflop raise is to give people what they think are good odds later to stay longer than they should.

[/ QUOTE ]



My reasons this turn raise is questionable:
1) the posters - random hands
2) almost every hand that would call one BB on the turn was drawing dead.
3) The Ace on the board - that the other players all are reading heros hands as TPGK. Some one with aces/bad kicker might not call two with hero's aggression. Hands that might not call two might also pay on the river. No one will call two unless they have that ace beat. Nothing does.

I still think the call is worth more EV than the raise.