AKo turn decision - Page 2

Moneyline · #1 06-26-2005, 04:39 PM

Considering the stakes, I think this post may belong in the microlimit forum. Anyway...

I agree with the others that checking the turn is the right play. Yes, the 4 was a scare card, but there are still a lot of hands that these players just aren't folding that have you beat. Bad players are good at finding reasons to call you down, so you may even find yourself getting called down by bottom pair.

AK is a great starting hand, but sometimes you just have to give it up.

Emmitt2222 · #2 06-26-2005, 05:07 PM

First of all it doesnt matter that this is 1/2, I should have edited that out. This could easily be 2/4. You have the reads and the decision to make, the level is irrelevant beyond that.

Secondly I dont read here as much as I should, but reading all the responses in this thread seems like you guys dont think enough. I would rather analyze 1 hand really well once a day than just state what my action would be in 200 hands. This isnt the best hand ever, but I still think there are a lot of things to think about in this. Its not just 'check for the freecard' or whatever. Try and apply this to your game in general with overcards against a large field, not just this one hand.

JoshuaD · #3 06-26-2005, 05:33 PM

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Try and apply this to your game in general with overcards against a large field, not just this one hand.

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Well, in general, it's right to check behind on the turn when your overcards whiffed and you're still up against a field of 3. But the peculiaralites of this hand makes it so betting is better, IMO.

I agree that we need to stop churning out cookie cutter answers. It's too easy to always check behind these turns where your overcards missed on the flop and turn with 3 opponents. But as I examine the exact particulars of this hand, I'm finding that betting has alot more merit than usual. When you put out one word "check" posts, you're stifling discussion. At least throw one line of explaination.

[ QUOTE ]
I would rather analyze 1 hand really well once a day than just state what my action would be in 200 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not do both? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

toss · #4 06-26-2005, 05:36 PM

Its true that villains will often be on draw or have wacky overcards, but I just don't think all three of them will not have any pair. I guess I can be persuaded that betting is good here.

JoshuaD · #5 06-26-2005, 05:53 PM

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Its true that villains will often be on draw or have wacky overcards, but I just don't think all three of them will not have any pair. I guess I can be persuaded that betting is good here.

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I think it's likely that at least one guy has a pair, but I also think it's likely that he'll fold it to a turn bet a good portion of the time. This does depend alot on who the player is and what pair he's holding, but I think all in all you fold a pair here pretty often on the turn.

That's not the only motivation for betting, however. We're looking at a list of reasons: Folding a pair, protection/value from overcards and flush draws, the possibility of seeing a free showdown, and most importantly, the fact that we can fold to a check raise from anyone.

I haven't explained that yet in this thread -- If we get check-raised we can be very, very sure that our 6 outs are no good. I don't think a single pair will check-raise this turn, ever.

toss · #6 06-26-2005, 06:08 PM

Having them fold a pair by betting the turn is good enough reason for me. I like betting the turn then.

KDawgCometh · #7 06-26-2005, 06:06 PM

I really do like a bet here. we have position and a lot of draws on the board. By betting if we can get this HU with someone who is on a flush or a nut straight draw that misses, we can take this pot down UI. I do think a bet will clear the field a bit as players at party seem to like to peel with almost anything. this board is also extremely scary for someone who has even middle pair. If we can fold out any hands like this, or a hand that could spike a pair on the river, we haved now benefitted from the bet. a bet can also possibly clean up an ace out as it isn't inconcieveable that someone is holding a hand like A3 or A6.

Emmitt2222 · #8 06-26-2005, 07:23 PM

So just to clarify, you along with the many others who say bet are doing so for folding equity and not because we have the best hand most often? Or you figure that you are good enough here to value bet? I'm guessing you want to win the pot right there so you like to have folding equity but with people this loose passive I dont think we have enough here to bet. I think that we may even have an opportunity for a free showdown even if we dont bet the turn against passive people.

KDawgCometh · #9 06-26-2005, 08:19 PM

I think its both fold equity and value, as odd as that sounds. given your reads, they could have anything, so we could also have the best hand. I think that a bet protects the hand here too,if we can fold out any odd draws and small pairs, then we've done what we needed to do

JoshuaD · #10 06-26-2005, 09:14 PM

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I think its both fold equity and value, as odd as that sounds. given your reads, they could have anything, so we could also have the best hand. I think that a bet protects the hand here too,if we can fold out any odd draws and small pairs, then we've done what we needed to do

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Just quoting this because it's very true.