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#11
10-05-2005, 02:56 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
If you raise now, you'll know what to do if you get 3-bet on the flop or donkbet on the turn. Passively calling can easily end up being 1.5 BBs more expensive than raising the flop.
"Raising for information" is seldom good strategy, but this is one of those spots where it can be a money-saver. (Of course, there are other advantages to raising. Specifically, we might fold out the guy on our left and get the button). 
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#12
10-05-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
So you raise and scare Q5 into just calling down? I think I'm leaning towards folding instead of raising.
Edit: What I mean to ask is, what's your plan if it goes fold-call-call? I'm not liking many plans in that case.
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#13
10-05-2005, 03:11 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
[ QUOTE ]
If you raise now, you'll know what to do if you get 3-bet on the flop or donkbet on the turn. Passively calling can easily end up being 1.5 BBs more expensive than raising the flop. "Raising for information" is seldom good strategy, but this is one of those spots where it can be a money-saver. (Of course, there are other advantages to raising. Specifically, we might fold out the guy on our left and get the button). [/ QUOTE ] I don't know what value gaining the button has here. I am not sure someone isn't value 3-betting a draw with 3+playere in and i'm not folding to a 3-bet because i will likely have enough with implied to draw at my set outs.
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#15
10-05-2005, 03:15 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
[ QUOTE ]
If you raise now, you'll know what to do if you get 3-bet on the flop or donkbet on the turn. Passively calling can easily end up being 1.5 BBs more expensive than raising the flop. [/ QUOTE ] I'd say that raising can be 1.5 BBs more expensive. Well, not exactly, but anyway... What do you do when checked to on the turn? If you bet, what do you do on the river? If you check, what do you do if bet into on the river? I'm investing 1.5 BBs more at maximum into the hand. If I'm raising the flop, I'll bet/fold the turn, and check behind on the river. If I'm not raising, I think folding is fine.
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#16
10-05-2005, 03:17 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
[ QUOTE ]
So you raise and scare Q5 into just calling down? I think I'm leaning towards folding instead of raising. [/ QUOTE ] I like a raise here. Sure he may have Q5 and check/call down, but a raise may get the others out of the pot. Now we are last to act, if he calls the turn bet, check the river behind. He also maybe leading the flop with a frush or straight draw. I agree w/ jrz I raise here, a 3bet does tell us a lot about his hand if he does reraise.
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#17
10-05-2005, 03:19 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I can see folding too. I just don't think calling is a viable option. If I'm not folding, I'm raising. [/ QUOTE ] Crap. You responded before you probably read my edit. I just see the hand going fold-call-call a lot, and then you get checked to on the turn. You bet and get called in two places, check behind on the river, and see a weak Q. Do you have a better plan? One that saves money? This costs one SB more to see the river.
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#18
10-05-2005, 03:19 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
[ QUOTE ]
If I'm raising the flop, I'll bet/fold the turn, and check behind on the river. If I'm not raising, I think folding is fine. [/ QUOTE ] Either of those two lines are reasonable, IMO. Is the flop bettor the kind who will take a shot into the PFR with middle pair? Does he like to bet his draws? If so, I dont really want to give up on the hand and I'm inclined to raise. If the flop bettor is a rock, I'm through with the hand. I'm not flat-calling regardless, though.
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#19
10-05-2005, 03:21 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
No, sorry. Like some of the others, if I raise the flop I'm going to bet the turn and check down on the river. Not sure if there's a better approach or not.
Edit: I'm *saving* a sb under this scenario, right? Call-down = 1 sb on the flop, 2 on the turn, 2 on the river = 5 sbs. My line = 2 sbs on the flop, 2 on the turn, 0 on the river = 4 sbs.
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#20
10-05-2005, 03:23 PM
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Re: For the people that said raise please explain why.
[ QUOTE ]
Is the flop bettor the kind who will take a shot into the PFR with middle pair? Does he like to bet his draws? If so, I dont really want to give up on the hand and I'm inclined to raise. If the flop bettor is a rock, I'm through with the hand. I'm not flat-calling regardless, though. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, reads are so important in this situation.
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