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#3
08-10-2005, 03:24 AM
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Re: AA and AK
for once I agree with mike l. careful examination of the board indicates a classic "slowplaying" board despite being j high. an excellent spot for this play. 4th street is a great place to slowplay a monster and pass it off as big cards that missed.
Dan Z. 
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#4
08-10-2005, 04:33 AM
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Re: AA and AK
Mid level opponents typically do two things when you show this kind of strength pre flop and bet the flop. They put you on a big pair or AK and don't respect flop bets and raises.
Betting the flop and checking the turn confirms AK from their perspective. You should sometimes play AK that way but if you want your share of free rivers and extra calls or bets on the river when you have an overpair you need to check the big pairs on the turn at least sometimes. This seems like a good spot. ~ Rick
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#7
08-10-2005, 05:40 AM
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Re: AA and AK
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This and the ensuing discussion have been very insightful to me. [/ QUOTE ] There is also a little bit on this in HPFAP. [/ QUOTE ] and inside the poker mind. as well as other 2p2 books. -Barron
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#8
08-10-2005, 06:20 AM
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Re: AA and AK
ok so what does the turn check accomplish?
unless you thought they'd both fold, you just missed out on money. if you bet turn and both call, you get 2BB. you got 0BB. You were hoping to induce a bluff in order to um, get bet into, then raise and receive, the very same 2BB? Not to mention if they had nothing and you thought they'd fold it on turn, not too many would attempt a bluff on river either.
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#9
08-10-2005, 06:32 AM
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Re: AA and AK
[ QUOTE ]
ok so what does the turn check accomplish? unless you thought they'd both fold, you just missed out on money. if you bet turn and both call, you get 2BB. you got 0BB. You were hoping to induce a bluff in order to um, get bet into, then raise and receive, the very same 2BB? Not to mention if they had nothing and you thought they'd fold it on turn, not too many would attempt a bluff on river either. [/ QUOTE ] enjoy these early days of poker knowledge. -Barron
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#10
08-10-2005, 09:43 AM
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Re: AA and AK
[ QUOTE ]
ok so what does the turn check accomplish? unless you thought they'd both fold, you just missed out on money. if you bet turn and both call, you get 2BB. you got 0BB. You were hoping to induce a bluff in order to um, get bet into, then raise and receive, the very same 2BB? Not to mention if they had nothing and you thought they'd fold it on turn, not too many would attempt a bluff on river either. [/ QUOTE ] The point here is that the 1bb/2bb is inconsequential at a table where your opponents are intelligent and capable of outplaying you if you play too predictably. Showing them that you can check AA for no reason at all except to be tricky will instill doubt in future hands causing them to play future streets less than optimally. We tend to forget many of the plays our opponents do and lump them together into broad categories such as ("Oh, that villain likes to check-raise the turn."). Notice how broad that note on a villain is and how little it can pertain to optimal play during the actual hand in which the villain is check-raising. ("He may check AA.") is a much more specific note that applies to pratically ANY short-handed pot in which the original poster checks after showing strength pre-flop and on the flop, then slows down on the turn. In future pots, this mental flag may gain free cards and river folds where otherwise the villains would have attempted to play back at the original poster. EDIT: To clarify, I'm a fledgling 1/2 player and this type of play would never be +EV in my games where rarely would a villain think anything of it except that I must be a super fish. However, at higher stakes it is obvious that an expert player must be able to do more than value bet and check-raise. The villains in this hand are far more perceptive, however, and I'm sure they knew exactly why he played that hand that way.
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