Flopping the 3rd nut flush... - Page 2

scrapperdog · #11 10-22-2005, 01:56 PM

This seems to depend on how much money was in the pot already. At this poing less than 1/5 of the op's stack is in there ... would the nut flush really push this hard? If half the money was in already and he felt you were commited to you hand then yes he would push it most of the time. If you add in the fact that the person that folded probably had a flush as well that puts this over the top. Pretty rare 3 people have a flush when it flops.

Remember we are talking about a 100$ table here and not a 25 cent party table, that makes a difference imo.

orange · #12 10-22-2005, 02:09 PM

Call, and expect to see a baby flush, 2-pair, or a set. Most fish flat call the raise with the NF or K-Flush. Button is trying to protect his hand IMO.

#13 10-22-2005, 02:16 PM

This is a very tricky situation. True, I agree that why would someone with the nut flush push that hard on the flop? But even if the villian has the K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], there is risk of him losing out to the nuts (a potential straight flush) if a 4th [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] scare card appears on the turn or river.

So villian (if he has K or Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img])may be thinking that if the hero flopped ANY flush, then there is a high probability that the hero will still call his all-in reraise and get the big pay off. If hero folds, then the villian still avoids the potential situation of a 4th [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] showing up and causing him to lose so why even go there. Alternatively, villian may have flopped trips and the push is to force flush chasers to lay down their hand but this would be a horrible move on villian's part.

Regards, Steve

Rooger · #14 10-22-2005, 02:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ive seen all sorts of people limp in with KTs and even K9s. I think you're beat. Even if you arent beat, if he has the K or Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] you still might lose. I'd fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is terrible advice. Unless you have a serious read on pusher, this is an easy call.

-T

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. You might lose to a higher flush, but more often you'll be up against a set, nut-flush draw or two pair. If the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hadn't been on the board it might've been a more difficult call, but I'd probably still call.

Button showed 33 and filled up on the river?

#15 10-22-2005, 02:26 PM

I agree with scrapper, a higher flush isn't likely to be pushing with the button and all this action in front of him. Not to say that some people wouldn't push here with the nut flush. Either way, this is an auto-call.

stu-unger · #16 10-22-2005, 02:46 PM

i think villains range is higher flush, smaller flush, set, 2 pair, pair + draw, lone K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and some other nonsense. i think we are well ahead of his range here. i say all u can eat, baby...

J Chap · #17 10-22-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Alternatively, villian may have flopped trips and the push is to force flush chasers to lay down their hand but this would be a horrible move on villian's part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that really horrible? Can you explain what you would do with your set here? Are you laying it down on the assumption that one of your three opponents flopped the flush? Or is it that plus the possibility that they'll stick around with their K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ?

Thanks,
J Chap

scrapperdog · #18 10-22-2005, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think villains range is higher flush, smaller flush, set, 2 pair, pair + draw, lone K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and some other nonsense. i think we are well ahead of his range here. i say all u can eat, baby...

[/ QUOTE ]

He dont have 2 pair. He has a set, a baby flush, nut flush draw, or nut flush. Of all the options I would say baby flush or a set who thinks all but the nut flush will fold and even if he is called he has outs are the most likley. All you can eat baby lol I love that quote.

#19 10-22-2005, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Alternatively, villian may have flopped trips and the push is to force flush chasers to lay down their hand but this would be a horrible move on villian's part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that really horrible? Can you explain what you would do with your set here? Are you laying it down on the assumption that one of your three opponents flopped the flush? Or is it that plus the possibility that they'll stick around with their K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ?

Thanks,
J Chap

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though the question was for him, I'll answer with what I'd do.

First, I don't think pushing here is horrible with the set. However, I would just call from the button with a set. My plan would be to see the turn before I make my move. If the 4th club comes on the turn, I'm not losing all my money here. Obviously, I'd want to board to pair. But if the turn doesn't pair the board or bring the 4th club, now I'm probably losing all my money unless the action from the hero and UTG make it blatantly obvious someone has the flush.

#20 10-22-2005, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Call, and expect to see a baby flush, 2-pair, or a set. Most fish flat call the raise with the NF or K-Flush. Button is trying to protect his hand IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I was the villian in this hand and wanted to see if anybody folds his hand. I guess not.

The above quote is exactly why I pushed. Reverse psycho I guess, but I don't consider myself a fish [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]. I had Q7s