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#11
04-22-2005, 12:45 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
Negreanu's doesn't quite match with this version from Cardplayer:
[ QUOTE ] After a multi-way flop of 9-3-2 rainbow, there was a bet to Negreanu, and he raised it up. The player acting behind him effectively put him all in, and Negreanu said, "I've only got five-high, but I'll call," and he pushed in his last $30,000 or so. The player asked again, and he reaffirmed his hand, showing 5-4 suited for an open-ended straight draw. The other player showed 10-9 suited for top pair. Negreanu asked if anyone had folded an ace when the turn card fell with a blank diamond. (Unfortunately, there were no diamonds on the flop, so he didn't even have the benefit of a runner-runner flush draw.) A 5 on the river gave him a pair, but not enough to stay alive, and Daniel Negreanu was eliminated from the tournament. [/ QUOTE ] Daniel is probably telling it right, but I was shuddering at the version above when I read it. 
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#12
04-22-2005, 01:05 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
What? You mean a negreanu silly play didn't work? Oh i guess this is what matt matros meant when he said other great players like daniel went out too. To answer matt he's right. daniel is out for the same he was. Because he got involded with a hand he wasn't supposed to be involved in. Btw matt's play was not near as bas as daniel's. I guess daniel though he was gonna get away with calling big raises with little suited cards forever? You don't get to run good forever!
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#14
04-22-2005, 01:49 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
[ QUOTE ]
Comparing this hand to Matt's hand is like comapring you to Vince. Or is it? I will let other's elaborate. [/ QUOTE ] Or you to a monkeys butt. Others need not elaborate. Oh, I'm sorry to all the monkeys out there for making this comparison. But(t) fair is fair. Vince
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#16
04-22-2005, 02:38 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
1. He does not say whether this particular table was "awesomely weak", just that he had been at weak tables the first two days. If Bechtel has been picking apart the table, I would think it is not entirely weak.
2. Even though he was called, if the stack and pot sizes are correct, he was probably correct to push. The likelihood of picking up the 30,000 pot is quite high in this situation. If he gets called, he still has 8 outs(vs. made hand)-14 outs(if some lunatic calls with AK) to win 100,000 on a 35,000 bet. 3. Fold preflop. Still plenty of chips to wait on better opportunity. But then again, I suck with a big stack.
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#17
04-22-2005, 03:02 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
[ QUOTE ]
Negreanu's doesn't quite match with this version from Cardplayer: [ QUOTE ] After a multi-way flop of 9-3-2 rainbow, there was a bet to Negreanu, and he raised it up. The player acting behind him effectively put him all in, and Negreanu said, "I've only got five-high, but I'll call," and he pushed in his last $30,000 or so. The player asked again, and he reaffirmed his hand, showing 5-4 suited for an open-ended straight draw. The other player showed 10-9 suited for top pair. Negreanu asked if anyone had folded an ace when the turn card fell with a blank diamond. (Unfortunately, there were no diamonds on the flop, so he didn't even have the benefit of a runner-runner flush draw.) A 5 on the river gave him a pair, but not enough to stay alive, and Daniel Negreanu was eliminated from the tournament. [/ QUOTE ] Daniel is probably telling it right, but I was shuddering at the version above when I read it. [/ QUOTE ] Actually I'd bet that Cardplayer got it right. "I've only got five-high, but I'll call," sounds exactly like something Daniel would say. IMHO, I think Daniel was trying to make it sound (in his blog) like a better play (doing a Stop-n-Go and putting the decision on the other player) than what he did (calling all-in, even with odds he knew he was 66% to go home).
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#18
04-22-2005, 03:15 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
[ QUOTE ]
If Daniel keeps advertising that he makes these types of plays he, in my opinion, will most likely not find himself in the winners circle as often as he has. Bechtel mad a tough call here. Against another player he may have layed his hand down. But Daniel likes the notoriety that plays like this give him so Bechtel had valuable "information" that helped him make this call. He mucks the hand, I believe, against David Sklansky. By the way I believe that Jim Bechtel is considered a very good tournament player. Vince [/ QUOTE ] Your back? Great, another promise broken, I even had you ignored, not sure what happened - anyway decent post this time. This stuff has been documented for years, Phil wrote about it in PPLP This is probably Daniels biggest weakness - but maybe also a strength - hell, I have never understood how successful he is.
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#19
04-22-2005, 03:40 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
Limp re-raising all-in pre-flop is not the obvious play, but probably the best one here. It is almost impossible to envision Negreanu, Raymer, Moneymaker, Goerring or anyone else who has won a major large field tourney lately folding to the pre-flop raise in this situation, which could mean it would be a mistake to do so. A certain high-variance style seems to be required for ultimate success in these things.
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#20
04-22-2005, 04:09 PM
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Re: Negreanu\'s exit
If it was at least a 4-way pot, I think he pretty much had to call with the suited connector. If there were a couple of weak Internet qualifiers or fantasy camp types in the hand (limp callers are often not good players) and an aggressive raiser who might not have much, that seems like all the more reason to call. I think he had to push with the open ended with that much money in the pot. A preflop push might be too likely to be called.
It is hard to see how he could have played the hand any other way. At least I would have played it that way.
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