Blind defense - Bringing a knife to a gun fight

The great thing about a hand like this is you can really put the guy on tilt afterwards with a line like "Damn I'm good."

[paperboyNC]

Once the flop hits, I am probably calling down to get a cheap showdown. The PF caps made the pot big enough to justify a calldown and not getting to showdown here sucks.

While you would like raise the turn to make hands with a ton of outs like ATs or AJs pay, I'd rather use those 2 big bets to go to showdown rather than risk being 3bet on the turn.

[einbert]

Don't even think about folding 88 to a single raise in the BB preflop. ESPECIALLY when you have position.

Preflop is perfect. Fold the flop. I don't know why everyone is telling you to continue. Your turn raise is a stone bluff.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Against this villain, raise the flop. Call a 3-bet & fold the turn UI.

[/ QUOTE ]


And why are you calling a threebet getting like 12-1 to draw to a 20-1 shot? You're not getting the kind of insane implied odds you would need for that. In fact a lot of the time you hit your set on the turn you will still lose to KK or QQ. Spew spew spew.

I'd have a hard time calling that flop.

[einbert]

The last thing you should be worried about at 2/4 is a TAG trying to move you off the best hand. The TAGs at this limit are generally going to be docile and weak. I'm not saying they aren't good players or don't have the potential to become good players, but they are usually fairly inexperienced and are just not looking to "make a move" at a pot.

When a TAG caps OOP like that you have to respect his hand. A lot of TAGs at this limit won't even cap hands like AK and JJ. When that flop comes down the only two hands you could have been beating, AK and AQ, crush you. There is no reason to continue past this point unless you have some read beyond pokertracker numbers. Defending your blind is great at all but it doesn't mean putting in 2.5 BB with third pair in a pot where a TAG capped OOP PF. You have to be able to let these hands go early when the board kills your hand, it will save you money.

Even giving a very liberal range of hands to the villian, you're not getting the effective odds you need to call down. I'll leave the effective odds calculation for you as an exercise.

Board: 3c Ks Qc
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 75.9639 % 75.96% 00.00% { TT+, ATs+, KQs, AJo+ }
Hand 2: 24.0361 % 24.04% 00.00% { 8c8s }

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
So how would you have proceed here seeing this flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have raised the flop. I fold to any turn donk or c/r, unless of course I hit eight on turn.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd need a read here, but I'm not a very big fan of riasing this flop. to me folding > calling > raising.

FWIW, in these spots I do a good deal of calling. With air, with a hand, with whatever. A lot of times, on a board like this, the SB gives up if you call once. If your SB isn't this kind of player, then calling seems [censored]. But raising doesn't appeal to me that much either.

Also, 3-bet pre-flop.

Just call, dont raise, the turn. With 88 against a SB steal, you're going to showdown on all but the scariest flops, e.g., A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] where you hold red 88.

[callmedonnie]

Even though I adovacted the same line, this thought did cross my mind. I usually just peel here, it is definitely a leak. At the same time, I know you don't want to fold all the time in this spot because you may become too suseptible to the bluff.