Pokerroom Raids and Players' Money

[other1]

There are doctors and priests and teachers that are bad apples too.

[mikech]

i was told that in the uncapped nl game at bway, some of the players who sat with 10k or more were allowed to play with the cash in their pockets and settle up at the end of the night, for precisely the reason of reducing the risk of getting it all confiscated during a raid.

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There are doctors and priests and teachers that are bad apples too.

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Sure put how is that relevant to the issue of whether the police benfit from these raids, I was responding to a post that suggested that police officers had nothing to gain from these raids.

I would be much more inclined to agree that doctors, priests and teachers have nothing to gain from these raids.

[PokerCad]

OMG, It REALLY sucks you guys have to play this way and risk your BR,,no where close to drive?????

The way for players to get their money back is to stand up and shout to those that will listen (and many of you have enough money that people will listen) about how the money that is being taken is not evidence of any crime. By what everyone says the manhattan cops are NOT writing summonses and repeatedly tell you that what you are doing is NOT a crime. The money on the table is YOURS. The only evidence of the crime that the cops are charging is the time. Until all the people that play and frequent the clubs unite together the cops will continue to smell the blood, continue to feed on the easy prey. No one that I know of has made a report, fought this, went to precincts to claim their money etc...

The point is...editorial pages, congressman, DA's elections (Brooklyn is coming up), etc are the ways to fight this.
Silence just makes them stronger...

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The way for players to get their money back is to stand up and shout to those that will listen (and many of you have enough money that poeple will listen) about how the money that is being taken is not evidence of any crime. By what everyone says the manhattan cops are NOT writing summonses and repeatedly tell you that what you are doing is NOT a crime.

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Are we talking about cash on the table or chips?

Eaither way the fact that you as a player are not committing a crime does not mean that the money or chips you are using is not evidence of a crime. Money in play at a cardroom would certainly would be evidence of the crime being comiitted by the operater of the room (since if there is nothing being wagered there is no crime at all).

Another thing to remember is that the fact that the police are not arresting players does not mean that there is no legal basis to do so. A very reasonable argument could be made that a player with cards or chips in his possession is in possession of a gambling device.

PL section 225.00(7)

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"Gambling device" means any device, machine, paraphernalia or
equipment which is used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling
activity, whether such activity consists of gambling between persons or
gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine. Notwithstanding
the foregoing, lottery tickets, policy slips and other items used in the
playing phases of lottery and policy schemes are not gambling devices.

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PL 225.00(12)
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"Unlawful" means not specifically authorized by law.

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PL Section 225.30(a)

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Possession of a gambling device.
a. A person is guilty of possession of a gambling device when, with
knowledge of the character thereof, he or she manufactures, sells,
transports, places or possesses, or conducts or negotiates any
transaction affecting or designed to affect ownership, custody or use
of:
. . .
2. Any other gambling device, believing that the same is to be used in
the advancement of unlawful gambling activity; . . .


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At this point the police are not pursuing this theory because they don't see the need to do so. If players put up to much of a fight about the seized money the police may decide to start charging players if nothing more than to put pressure on them for forfeiture purposes.

I agree that you should fight this through the lawful processes of elections and petitioning your government etc. . . but keep in mind that if you are present at one of these raids, this is not a good time to open your mouth about these matters.

[TakeMeToTheRiver]

You still have angels dancing on that pin... you are worse than me (and that is bad)... recent law school grad or just obsessive?

Long ago law school grad, retired from practice. bored.