Could Ali beat Lewis?

Lewis would have no chance against Ali in his prime. At that time his was so fast that nobody could hit him and even if they did get lucky , you know he can take it.


Ali would wear him down and take him out in the late rounds.

[Al Mirpuri]

Sports that rely upon sheer physical attributes to get results produce better athletes as advances in sports nutrition, sports technology and sports training produce more athletic (unnatural) bodies. For example, the 100m is now run faster than it was a hundred years ago. The current 100m champion runs it about one second faster than his predecessor a century ago. This is a product of the aforementioned factors.

Sports that do not rely heavily upon the physical attributes of their participants and depend upon mastery of certain skills do not necessarily produce better and better results as time goes on. For example, in first class cricket, the Australian Don Bradman averaged 99.94 runs per innings. This was done in the 1920s. In fact, when England played Australia for the Ashes the English bowlers bowled at Bradman rather than at the wicket in order to neutralize his genius. This became known as the Bodyline Series. No batsman has come close to Bradman's record.

Success at boxing is dependent upon skill, speed, stamina and strength (these are listed in no particular order). Some boxers depend more on one factor than others. However, the more factors you have in your favour the better.

Ali had the skill, the speed and the stamina (no tick for strength as he was not a puncher). Ali knew as much about ringcraft as anyone. Ali danced rings around Sonny Liston in their first encounter. Watching Ali (then known as Cassius Clay) against Liston is akin to watching a ballerina. Ali's hand speed was such that he could hold his hands low and still beat you to the punch. Ali had stamina aplenty. Not being a puncher meant that Ali had to go the distance often - and it was 15 rounds not nowadays' 12. Moreover, Ali could take a punch. In Clay v Cooper, Henry Cooper knocked young Cassius down but Cassius got back up. In the first fight with Frazier, Frazier knocked Ali down in round 14 (or 15?) but Ali got up.

Lewis has skill; a good jab and nice movement when he settles down to the task at hand but no real speed. As for stamina, well, he has been 12 rounds but twelve rounds is not fifteen rounds. As for strength, well, when he opens up he can take you out but he is naturally cautious and only opens up when he's in trouble or fears you enough to believe that ending it in three rounds through slugging it out is a better bet than boxing over twelve rounds. Can he take a punch? Some might say this does not matter as Ali is not a big puncher but the fact that Lewis can be taken out with single punch points to something else. When boxers have been taking a battering for some time they tend to go down and not get up. This is because getting up demands stamina and heart. Holyfield is a good example. He is not the sort of fighter who can be taken out by a single punch but after a battering lasting eight rounds, it takes too much to get up (I'm thinking of the third fight with Bowe). A Lewis systematically outboxed would go down and not get up.

I think Ruiz v Jones has answered the question of size. Talent can triumph over size. Punchers have a hard time going up in weight as they have to generate greater force to knock over heavier men. This does not apply to Ali as his greatest asset was not his one punch knock out ability. A boxer with a good chin and smooth movement need not fear a bigger, slower, man.

Ali v Lewis. The fight as it progresses: Ali would play mind games with Lewis. He would jab and move. He'd throw combinations. He'd tie Lewis up when Lewis got frisky. He'd beat him to the punch, repeatedly. A disheartened Lewis would sink to his knees around the seventh.

[Bill Murphy]

"An aging and clearly ineffective Evander Holyfield today would still beat up on Roy Jones. Height and weight make a huge difference. "

Still think so?
[img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Dynasty]

I came across this list of Top 10 Heavyweights according to George Foreman and thought it was interesting.

1. Joe Louis.
To be honest with you, number two is way off. Joe Louis is in a class by himself.

2. Rocky Marciano.
Just look at Rocky Marciano's record. Nobody beat him. You can't take that from him.

3. Jack Johnson.
A big brave cat, because he'd do whatever he wanted and get out of the way.

4. Muhammad Ali.
Put him down as the GREATEST MAN to ever box, and a hero
bigger than boxing. Once Ali lost his speed, it only showed that he'd never developed a great defense.

5. Joe Frazier.
Only because he depended solely on his left hook do I rate Joe Frazier below Marciano. Marciano could hit with both hands.

6. Jack Dempsy.
Jack Dempsy's very name means strength and courage. Other than Joe Louis, there is not a name in boxing or in sports with more meaning.

7.Mike Tyson.
A phenomenon. What Mike Tyson was able to do with his speed of hand and punching power is as phenomenal as what Muhammad
Ali did when he was Cassius Clay with speed of feet. Tyson
deserves to be in the top ten; this is where I put him, the youngest man to become Heavyweight Champion of the World.

8.Sonny Liston.
If Sonny Liston truly had not lost his cool, had not underestimated a young Cassius Clay; and kept the same mind set that he had as a contender, history would have been a lot kinder to him. Sonny Liston could not believe Muhammad Ali was so fast and had so much courage. It just made him fall apart.

9. Floyd Patterson.
The First Two-Time Heavyweight Champion of the World.

10. Evander Holyfield.
For standing up to Mike Tyson

[Al Mirpuri]

1. Joe Louis.
This guy was knocked out cold by Max Schmelling. Yes, he reigned for 11 years but WWII was the reason for that. All those title defences? It wasn't called a bum a month for nothing. This guy was outboxed by Billy Conn who would have gone on to win if he hadn't have got sloppy.

2. Rocky Marciano.
On winning the heavyweight championship he had six defences. These defences were against old men, someone he had already beat and an Englishman, Don Cockell. The respect he deserves is for getting out whilst at the top of his game.

3. Jack Johnson.
A black man who cocked a snook at the White Establishment. A game boxer but primitive in terms of skills.

4. Muhammad Ali.
He was knocked down but never knocked out by anyone. So good that he could break the technical rules of good boxing and still triumph (low hands, leaning back from jabs, and being a head hunter to the exclusion of all else).

5. Joe Frazier.
Too one dimensional. Bound to go down to bigger and stronger men.

6. Jack Dempsy.
Primitive slugger.

7.Mike Tyson.
Bigger, faster and stronger than many on this list. At his peak, he was more skilled, as well.

8.Sonny Liston.
A limited pugilist.

9. Floyd Patterson.
This guy lost the world championship to a Swede, only to regain it. This guy is the beneficiary of a statistical abberation. Moreover, Marciano retired and Patterson got a shot at the title. Patterson probably would not have beat Marciano.

10. Evander Holyfield.
Evander should be ranked higher on heart and courage alone.

Most of the guys on George Foreman's list are too small to live with the heavyweights of today.

The Way The List Should Read:
1. Muhammed Ali
2. Evander Holyfield
3. Mike Tyson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Riddick Bowe
6. George Foreman
7. Lennox Lewis
8. Joe Louis
9. Joe Frazier
10. Michael Spinks

I have used a 'who would beat whom' line of reasoning in compiling this list.

[andyfox]

Many years ago, Joe Louis was employed by Caesars Palace as a "greeter." People were thrilled to meet him and shake his hand.

Once I played blackjack with him. He wasn't really playing blackjack, he was standing next to his girlfried. She was on first base. After she would play, he would look at the dealer's hole card. Yes, they allowed him to pick up and look at the dealer's hold card. And he was pretty sloppy. Not only that, he didn't have much of a poker face. He'd shake his head in disgust if, for example, his girlfriend made 18 and if the dealer, who had a 9 up, had 19. (All the players' cards were dealt face up.)

With this added knowledge, all of us other players should have had a field day, right? I left the table after about 20 minutes of this, dead even. I was the big winner.