$1/2 NL quads on river... - Page 2

pokernicus · #11 10-14-2005, 02:21 AM

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my thoughts exactly... but the question is, will i make more from the times that he makes the call or pushes himself than i make by pushing myself?

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I'm not sure I understand. You make the same whether he pushes or you push and he calls. I suppose that if you bet a small amount (or just checked) to entice a push, then there's a reasonable chance he won't bite. After all, the pot is chooped if you have an A. And you're not likely to call with anything weaker than an A.

If he's convinced you have an A, it makes little sense for him to push because you're almost definitely going to call, and if the pot gets split, and you'd both be donating some extra money in rake because theres more money in the middle (depending, of course, on rake rules, etc).

bholdr · #12 10-14-2005, 02:30 AM

"I'm not sure I understand. You make the same whether he pushes or you push and he calls. I suppose that if you bet a small amount (or just checked) to entice a push, then there's a reasonable chance he won't bite. After all, the pot is chooped if you have an A. And you're not likely to call with anything weaker than an A.

If he's convinced you have an A, it makes little sense for him to push because you're almost definitely going to call, and if the pot gets split, and you'd both be donating some extra money in rake because theres more money in the middle (depending, of course, on rake rules, etc)."

i was trying to express that, in most situations, there is a margin in there where the opponent will call a push but check behind himself, like if i had been semi bluffing and made the nut flush on the river and he had been drawing to a lower flush... but, with quads vs a nut full, that little area disappears...

my point: there is almost zero advantage in checking to him, since even though he will like bet the only hand he could call with, he'll also call with any hand that he'll bet. if there is any chance that he'll check behind (maybe he's sure it's a split or somehow is scared of quads...), then it's advantageous to push...

my brian hurts. i feel like i'm doing a logic puzzle. i should post this in poker theroy and see what they come up with.

pokernicus · #13 10-18-2005, 08:09 PM

Got it - I understand what you were trying to say. We're definitely on the same page. I agree 100% that this is one of those situations where he would call if you pushed, but check behind if you checked.

As I mentioned previously, you played this perfectly. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] NH!

I think there are situations where your opponent might put you on the same hand, but still bet if you check (hoping to steal the pot) -- especially if there's a better hand out there you might be worried about.

For example, there is four to a straight on the board going into the turn and you have the card to fill the straight. (Your opponent does too, but you may not know it). You make a large bet on the turn -- your opponent appears to agonize and after a while makes a "crying" call (you start to put him on a set). The board pairs on the end; you check and he pushes (stacks are deep).

(If I recall correctly, this type of example is in Super/System.)

Such situations typically require someone to be willing to make a "big" laydown, so may not apply to the limits in question.