Rejecting God

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I hate this post. This is a clear example when both sides don't know what they're arguing, why they're arguing, and why they're both wrong.

[chezlaw]

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I hate this post. This is a clear example when both sides don't know what they're arguing, why they're arguing, and why they're both wrong.

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Three sides now, welcome. What are you arguing, why, and do you know your right?

chez

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It doesn't follow that because god knows the truth that he isn't being deceitful.

Any god that created me and condemns those who don't believe is either not good or deceitful.

Either way, rejecting the kingdom of god should be seriously considered.

chez

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This is sillier than anything a religious person could say. At least there is some chance that religious people are right. They just greatly overstate their case. You on the other hand, would meet God (thus knowing the truth with 100% certainty )and then reject it.

Whats wrong with believing that there is 75-95% that God does not exist, but still keep an open mind and evaluate the evidence as it comes in? You can still be 99.99999% certain that any specific religion is wrong.

As to God decieving you, well being all good I dont know that he could do this, but this is merely one of those silly paradoxes that point with near certainty to specific religions being constructed by men.

[NotReady]

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i do realize that this is somewhat strange to tell your creator "what's what",


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It's very rare to find someone as straightforward as this. The fundamental sin of mankind according to the Bible is the desire to set up independently of God and then judge Him based on their own standards. Basically everyone who doesn't accept Him is saying "Up yours".

Though the absurdity of this is apparent, all unbelievers are essentially doing this but few admit it.

There are several places in the Bible where this attitude is addressed. The entire book of Job for instance is about how neither Job nor his friends have the right to judge God, and in the end, Job realizes this and admits it. In Romans, Paul says "Who are you, O man, who answers back to God?"

As for punishing you for your unbelief, that leaves out most of the story. All are sinners and reject God's authority. To remedy this, God sent His Son to be a sacrifice for our sins. When you reject the free offer of justification, forgiveness of sins, there remains no more sacrifice. In spite of this, and even though you think you have a case, in the end "Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord".

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Though the absurdity of this is apparent, all unbelievers are essentially doing this but few admit it.


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Thats nonsense. Not you calling the OP absurd, the fact that you think all nonbelievers do this.

[NotReady]

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. Not you calling the OP absurd, the fact that you think all nonbelievers do this.


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Just read a few posts in this forum from unbelievers. The constant, unremitting refrain is that "What I believe is all that counts, no one can tell me what's right and wrong". Even if a few defer to someone else, like a moral philosopher for instance, they still reserve the right to decide if that person is right. Just so long as the moral law isn't absolute and doesn't come from an Absolute Personality.

[bluesbassman]

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. Not you calling the OP absurd, the fact that you think all nonbelievers do this.


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Just read a few posts in this forum from unbelievers. The constant, unremitting refrain is that "What I believe is all that counts, no one can tell me what's right and wrong". Even if a few defer to someone else, like a moral philosopher for instance, they still reserve the right to decide if that person is right. Just so long as the moral law isn't absolute and doesn't come from an Absolute Personality.

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I can't speak for the other unbelievers, but atheism does not necessarily imply lack of acceptance of an objective moral code. I claim raping children is absolutely wrong, regardless of what a "god" proclaims.

It seems there is equivocation in this thread between rejecting the existence of "god" and condemning him morally. If I ever met this "god," I would accept him in the former sense, but emphatically reject him in the latter sense, for a variety of reasons.

[chezlaw]

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This is sillier than anything a religious person could say. At least there is some chance that religious people are right. They just greatly overstate their case. You on the other hand, would meet God (thus knowing the truth with 100% certainty )and then reject it.

Whats wrong with believing that there is 75-95% that God does not exist, but still keep an open mind and evaluate the evidence as it comes in? You can still be 99.99999% certain that any specific religion is wrong.

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Its not silly to reject a god who condemns those who don't believe. The conclusion that I would reject god sounds silly (probably is silly) but thats not because my logic is wrong its because the premises is silly i.e. a good god who rejects those who don't believe.

If you think the sillyness lies in the logic rather than the premise then tell me why.

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As to God decieving you, well being all good I dont know that he could do this, but this is merely one of those silly paradoxes that point with near certainty to specific religions being constructed by men.

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After telling me I'm being silly you then say this, which is the point I am making if you think about it.

chez

The Old Testament makes it impossible for me to follow the Christian God. It describes a God who commits genocide, orders slavery, visits plagues on whole cities, horribly tortures his faithful believers for purposes as minor as winning a wager, kills children for as little as making fun of a bald guy, scourges anyone who doesn't agree with him, and is generally an all-around [censored].

If the God of Isaac, Abraham, and Jacob did in fact exist, I'd think it was our duty to oppose him.

[chezlaw]

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Just read a few posts in this forum from unbelievers. The constant, unremitting refrain is that "What I believe is all that counts, no one can tell me what's right and wrong".

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Its not as simple as that. What you have said is true if god doesn't exist but once you consider that god does exists then it changes. Suddenly my sense of right and wrong comes from god and it must count unless god is deceitful.

My sense of right and wrong screams in outrage at any power that condemns those who don't believe - I can't think of anything closer to pure evil.

So I don't believe that a good god can condemn those who don't believe.

chez