too passive or just right? - Page 2

btspider · #11 10-11-2004, 04:46 PM

22 can handle much less than 8 callers. 5 total is fine for me, sometimes 4 if they go too far with their hands.

the preflop recommendations are simplified in some aspects of the game. you need to make this MP decision based on the relative looseness/tightness of the players behind you at your table.

Fiddler · #12 10-11-2004, 05:15 PM

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My feeling exactly. You've got to flop a set to win with 22, so you need 8 callers. Given the chance that you'll get raised behind, I fold it every time.

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You don't need 8 callers. You are a 7.5:1 dog to flop a set and if we assume you will win when you hit your set you have to win 7.5SB to break even. That is like what? Three people calling the flop and two the turn, then comes the river and we haven't even raised a single time yet! I think the normal recommendation is to play pocket pairs against at least five opponenets (or maybe four I don't remember). Anyway, you should NOT wait for 8 probable callers before you play a small pocket pair.

Edit: And I even forgot about the money already in the pot. It is getting late in my timezone. *yawn*

dave44 · #13 10-11-2004, 11:44 PM

river bettor has AK and MHIG.

wabe · #14 10-12-2004, 01:21 AM

I have issues with similar hands, as I will tend to bet to determine hand strength, and get called through, only to lose to someone with Q8o, for example.

Since no one forced the hand, were you just going to see the showdown for free? What if there would have been bets on any street other than the river?

dave44 · #15 10-12-2004, 10:33 AM

I would have folded to a bet on the flop or turn. It just doesn't seem worth a call if anyone likes their situation enough to bet. In fact I might not have called a bet on the river from anyone but the pre-flop raiser who seemed to have high cards like he did.

Redd · #16 10-12-2004, 10:59 AM

I'm very, very green so this is probably going to be a stupid question - but why wouldn't anyone bet the flop to limit the field here?

It seems like this hand is still pretty vulnerable to the potential club flush draw and any 6, 7, or high pocket pair. Since nobody's showing any strength yet, isn't it likely that you'll already have the best hand on the flop, and isn't that the quintessenial time to make the draw hands pay for their cards?

And wouldn't a flop bet also give you a chance for some cheap information about the CO? Namely, whether he has a high pair or overcards - if he has the pair he'll likely raise, and you can get out and save a BB later on?

Like I said - I'm a complete rookie, and I'm sure there's just something that I'm missing. Could someone point out the fallacies in a flop bet?

davelin · #17 10-12-2004, 12:08 PM

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I'm very, very green so this is probably going to be a stupid question - but why wouldn't anyone bet the flop to limit the field here?

It seems like this hand is still pretty vulnerable to the potential club flush draw and any 6, 7, or high pocket pair. Since nobody's showing any strength yet, isn't it likely that you'll already have the best hand on the flop, and isn't that the quintessenial time to make the draw hands pay for their cards?

And wouldn't a flop bet also give you a chance for some cheap information about the CO? Namely, whether he has a high pair or overcards - if he has the pair he'll likely raise, and you can get out and save a BB later on?

Like I said - I'm a complete rookie, and I'm sure there's just something that I'm missing. Could someone point out the fallacies in a flop bet?

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CO should've bet the flop.

dave44 · #18 10-12-2004, 01:44 PM

I'm not betting this flop because even if I have the best hand, which I'm not sure that I do, my equity edge is probably very small versus the whole field. Any card besides a 2 could be a potential scare card- although the lower they are, the less scary, any pair would beat me.

dfscott · #19 10-12-2004, 02:18 PM

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CO should've bet the flop.

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Exactly. CO gave this pot away.

Redd · #20 10-12-2004, 03:26 PM

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Any card besides a 2 could be a potential scare card- although the lower they are, the less scary, any pair would beat me.

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I think I gotcha. I'm still a little confused about one thing though - the suggested turn bet was intended to keep the other players from getting a free draw at one of those scare cards, right? Let's just say that the CO preflop raiser had limped instead - in this case, would it be right to bet the flop for the same reason you would bet the turn?

Thanks for putting up with me guys, I'm learning alot.