Folding QQ on Flop

[krimson]

I'd almost always fold this. If I had a good read on villian and knew he was capable of folding KK in this position I might fire off a raise, but this would be rare. The diamond 3-flush leads me further to wanting to fold, as a Kd is going to showdown here (ie: chase to river, and might as well call one more with KK even if the flush doesn't hit).

[mwilli31]

[ QUOTE ]
However, if he called your raise on the flop he may very well have given you a free card on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
That's not such a good thing. A free card on the turn isn't worth it because even if you get it 100% of the time, you're still not getting the right odds to play for it. Rethink this line because it makes absolutely no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
At first I liked the idea of three-betting to see where you are in the hand, but even if you are called and then checked to on the turn, you're really only drawing to the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q since the other queen puts 4 diamonds on board.
I'm agreeing with Aaron on this one, get out while you can.

[evans075]

Everything you said is right. But, in my experiece I like the flop raise against a LPP, again I based my post which agrees with the poster you have replied to with the aspect of facing a LPP. Reads would make this decision alot easier. Its easy to let go against a TAG but LPP, i'm riding him hard!!!

[evans075]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, if he called your raise on the flop he may very well have given you a free card on the turn.
[ QUOTE ]
That's not such a good thing. A free card on the turn isn't worth it because even if you get it 100% of the time, you're still not getting the right odds to play for it. Rethink this line because it makes absolutely no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
At first I liked the idea of three-betting to see where you are in the hand, but even if you are called and then checked to on the turn, you're really only drawing to the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q since the other queen puts 4 diamonds on board.
I'm agreeing with Aaron on this one, get out while you can.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted just a second ago that this is a read determinate call. Drop against a TAG, and I'm raising agains a LPP!

[LowDown22]

I like the fold especially against an unknown. Very slim chance you are ahead and almost no chance to improve.

Isn't a LPP likely to call you down? And isn't this same LPP only likely to cap preflop with some very solid hands that are now ahead of you on the flop...he is passive after all.

[evans075]

Your right but I still believe that against him we could be ahead. I just might be in a tunnel b/c latley I've been faced with LPP and LAG going crazy preflop with 99,88,77,66 and suited connectors (wich could be bad in this case) to me down and me win the hand. I don't know if its some new breed of loose cannons or I'm just seeing some wierd [censored]. I acually had the same-type hand and dropped my QQ preflop to a bet and a raise b4 me to see 33 as the winner, no flush, no set, no two pair, yes a pair of 3's. I just don't like letting this go without testing the waters a little.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything you said is right. But, in my experiece I like the flop raise against a LPP, again I based my post which agrees with the poster you have replied to with the aspect of facing a LPP. Reads would make this decision alot easier. Its easy to let go against a TAG but LPP, i'm riding him hard!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

So... you want to play against LPP who capped preflop and led into a very very scary flop? Maybe you don't know what the P stands for... I'm actually more inclined to raise an aggressive TAG because a TAG might be overplaying a hand like 99 preflop (since it's heads up) and might be bet-folding this flop. He might also be bet-folding JJ-TT.

[evans075]

I see your point! And your right. A raise agains a passive would become a call down after a raise. I'm wrong (God I hate admiting that) I have a quick one for you to see what you think of this. Villan1 is a LAG, Villan2 is a TAG Hero has Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Preflop is raised by me and cold called by both. Flop is same as OP minus the ace (unders all dimonds) Villan1 bets the flop Villan2 raises action to me where I fold. Explain what you think everyone has! (.5/1 party some really wierd plays here)

[LowDown22]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know if its some new breed of loose cannons or I'm just seeing some wierd [censored]. I acually had the same-type hand and dropped my QQ preflop to a bet and a raise b4 me to see 33 as the winner, no flush, no set, no two pair, yes a pair of 3's.

[/ QUOTE ]
Haha..I swear I have these same thoughts every few weeks. It makes me think the fish are conspiring against me and having meetings to figure out how to exploit me. In reality it just burns me so bad inside when I fold a winner in a spot like this (and to weak players) that the memory just sticks in my head and it seems like it happens more often than it truly does. I have to remind myself that in order to be a winning player, you will occasionally end up folding the winning hand.

[LowDown22]

In your hypothetical hand I would cold-call on the flop. I want to see the turn. If there is no 4th diamond, then I can spring to life and see where I'm at.