I will review YOUR hand. - Page 2

tiltaholic · #11 11-10-2005, 03:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hero is CO with T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Table has been 4-5 to a flop without much pre-flop raising.

UTG is 29/10/2 - gambles it up pre-flop, but solid post. Loves suited connectors/gappers regardless of position. That characteristic I hate in this particular hand.

MP1 is 35/4/1.5 - pretty loose all around.

MP2 is 19/12/2 - solid post flop player.

UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop (4 players 12.5 SB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 3-bets, Hero ????

At this point given what MP2 did (raise and call a 3-bet and then check-raise trap the field) my spidey sense states that he is either on a set of 8's or a great flush draw with two overs (AKQJh/KQh). MP1 has been pretty predictable and most likely has paired the board somehow. UTG calling along is probably also on a flush draw or some straight draw here. If it's a straight draw then my Tens are tainted beyond losing just the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Capping seems pointless since even if I do have the best hand right now, my equity in the pot is in the crapper to the point where I may actually lose money with every bet going in. I can't exactly fold. I want my mommy, but she can't help so I present this to Tiltaholic to see what I should do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Way to worry about their hand ranges and provide reads.

Don't worry! I think you're a little obsessed with their possible holdings.

It seems you are most worried about MP2 here. His play to me, looks more like pumping a heart draw than 88, 66, or 22 (does he really raise pf with 88 after 2 limpers?). Of course, he could have not capped with JJ if he got scared.

I don't know if I have the balls to cap the flop, but I'm certainly calling getting odds to call and seeing what the turn brings. Another reason not to cap is that while you probably have the best hand now, none of your opponents is folding and many hurtful cards can fall on the turn/river. The pot is now BIG, so waiting for the turn card so test the winds has some appeal.

I wouldn't worry about my tens being dirty because of some obscure straight draw.

tiltaholic · #12 11-10-2005, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about one of those 'the flop keeps missing my premium starting hands versus aggressive players' hands.

Like your thread. Nice play.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 is 25/10/2.4. Aggressive and has likely noticed the hero raises preflop more than the average bear. And he knows I will lay down overcards when the situation presents itself.

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, MP3 raises...

Can I continue here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I fold. There are many reasons.

1. UTG+1 could be a total [censored], but he clearly likely this flop. We do not.
2. Too many of your outs are tainted by UTG's and MP's interest in this flop.
3. We missed and we're getting 5:1 with pretty close to 100% confidence that we are drawing and likely drawing very thin.

Stealthy · #13 11-10-2005, 04:11 PM

Here is mine. Vilain is 65/6/0.8 after 200 hands of 6 Max.

One thing worth noting is that my table image is probably quite bad as I have been sucking out on the river a lot and folding a lot of missed flops and turns. I had been 20BB down at this table but had recovered 10 of then just prior to this hand. I have a big target on me saying "raise me I will fold"!

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero ?

TheKentock · #14 11-10-2005, 04:18 PM

tiltaholic nailed it!

But I seriously like your analysis here. I found myself in a similar situation a couple days ago, where I was behind a very small amount of hands, but ended up scaring myself out of a huge pot. Of course, I had the winning hand and missed out on an $80 pot (2/4 6max) because of MUTB syndrome.

Your combination analysis really puts into perspective the amount of hands we are beating here compared to the amount of KK hands out there. I think a lot of us have to remember that flop raises don't always mean that Villain has the nuts.

I like this thread, and your general level of analysis.

[/sucking up]

#15 11-10-2005, 04:38 PM

CO is in his first hand of this session.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

that was unexpected.

tiltaholic · #16 11-10-2005, 04:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Here is mine. Vilain is 65/6/0.8 after 200 hands of 6 Max.

One thing worth noting is that my table image is probably quite bad as I have been sucking out on the river a lot and folding a lot of missed flops and turns. I had been 20BB down at this table but had recovered 10 of then just prior to this hand. I have a big target on me saying "raise me I will fold"!

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't we already cover my ineptitude at shorthanded play?

i still fold the turn.
if you feel your image was such that this could easily be a bluff i'd call it down...the vast majority of the time this isn't a bluff on the turn.

Walker · #17 11-10-2005, 04:44 PM

oops. LAG 3bets, I call, fish call. Turn is a 7, checked to LAG.

tiltaholic · #18 11-10-2005, 04:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
CO is in his first hand of this session.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP1 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

that was unexpected.

[/ QUOTE ]

see the first hand in this thread.

i still lead the turn for the reasons i discuss there, planning to call down if raised.

as you played it...i lead this river and peg villian for going crazy with flush draws.

RatFink · #19 11-10-2005, 04:59 PM

Well done. You see you have no reason to fret a downswing, it's just part of the game. Your head is screwed on straight!

It's an obvious flush draw, and other guy is along for the ride with a flush draw or whatever. If it's a bizarre straight draw so what, I'm still ahead.

My equity might be crap though, so capping here makes no sense. I call. A non-heart, non-overcard helps me a lot. Improving my equity perhaps by 20% where I can comfortably resume betting for value.

Here is a Pokerstove analysis giving specific most dangerous hands to my opponents on the flop (any other holdings and I am just better off), where the flush draw + overs has me in a world of hurt even though I am ahead.

Board: 8h 2h 6s
Hand 1: 30.8970 % [ 00.31 00.00 ] { TdTc }
Hand 2: 52.6024 % [ 00.53 00.00 ] { KhQh }
Hand 3: 16.5006 % [ 00.17 00.00 ] { 9s7s }

And on a safe turn, I'm good to go and likey my position.

Board: 8h 2h 6s 3c
Hand 1: 54.7619 % [ 00.55 00.00 ] { TdTc }
Hand 2: 35.7143 % [ 00.36 00.00 ] { KhQh }
Hand 3: 09.5238 % [ 00.10 00.00 ] { 9s7s }

Stealthy · #20 11-10-2005, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Here is mine. Vilain is 65/6/0.8 after 200 hands of 6 Max.

One thing worth noting is that my table image is probably quite bad as I have been sucking out on the river a lot and folding a lot of missed flops and turns. I had been 20BB down at this table but had recovered 10 of then just prior to this hand. I have a big target on me saying "raise me I will fold"!

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: (5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero ?

[/ QUOTE ]

didn't we already cover my ineptitude at shorthanded play?

i still fold the turn.
if you feel your image was such that this could easily be a bluff i'd call it down...the vast majority of the time this isn't a bluff on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I was just sick of folding or a little on tilt. My cursor hovered over the fold button for most of the time allowed before clicking call! This is a classical case where if I am running well I fold and move on without a thought but take a look when things are bad.

So I call the raise .............

Check the 4 on the river, he bets and I call. He shows A8 off for bottom pair on the turn and MHIG! Not pleased with my call although it did show that even a passive guy was happy to take shots at me I was folding that much.

Got to make a nice note on the guy and win the pot so horray for me!