Why all the hostility to Tiffany Williamson?

[4_2_it]

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I just hope she doesn't end up at my table.

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WTF [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I want her and 8 other Williamsons at my cash game. I'll listen to my ipod and count my mountain of chips while they vacillate over whether their Q9o is good. Dude, she just added three years to the current poker boom.

BTW --The rest of your post is spot on.

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It has nothing to do with editing. Anyone who was there will say that shes actually been portrayed BETTER on tv than she was in reality.

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I haven't seen the TV episode in question, but I remember the bloggers who were there not having the nicest things to say about her play.

[SpaceAce]

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I just hope she doesn't end up at my table.

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WTF [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I want her and 8 other Williamsons at my cash game.

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Eh, I guess you're right. Still, just like you sometimes have to balance profit and variance, I may have to come down on the side of my own mental health. If she's anything like she seemed on TV, she'd drive me batty very rapidly.

SpaceAce

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Lord, this is a fantastically asinine post. Tiffany Williamson takes twelve minutes to make every little decision, slowing the game to a crawl, and it's the fault of everyone at the table except Tiffany Williamson. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were sleepy when you made this post.

She played poorly, she got lucky, she's an annoying time-waster. Good for her that she got so far. Good for poker that she got so far. I just hope she doesn't end up at my table.

SpaceAce

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SpaceAce, I think you need to go back and RE-READ my post. I said if anything, it was that the table WAS AS MUCH to blame (if there is blame here), and Kudo's for Tiffany for taking advantage of it (though I don't think it was her intent ... I wonder how many she put on tilt by taking her time to decide if to call or not).

Are you saying then, that one shouldn't use what one's opponent gives to you and use it against them?

They allowed her that long to decide (the table that is), and didn't call the clock on her, when they could of done so sooner. She used that to her FULL advantage, and used it against her opponents.

If they didn't like her taking that long ... then they should of called the clock on her sooner.

I'm saying they need to SHARE responsibility and not bitch because THEY (the table participants) decided (aka made a CHOICE) to NOT call the clock on her sooner.

She chose to take her time to decide ... THEY chose to NOT call the clock on her sooner.

That's all I meant.

I heard that Fossilman is a poster here, is that true? If he is, when was the last time he posted?

Not being facitious here, just curious is all, since a few people have mentioned him here.

[SpaceAce]

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SpaceAce, I think you need to go back and RE-READ my post. I said if anything, it was that the table WAS AS MUCH to blame (if there is blame here), and Kudo's for Tiffany for taking advantage of it (though I don't think it was her intent ... I wonder how many she put on tilt by taking her time to decide if to call or not).

Are you saying then, that one shouldn't use what one's opponent gives to you and use it against them?

They allowed her that long to decide (the table that is), and didn't call the clock on her, when they could of done so sooner. She used that to her FULL advantage, and used it against her opponents.

If they didn't like her taking that long ... then they should of called the clock on her sooner.

I'm saying they need to SHARE responsibility and not bitch because THEY (the table participants) decided (aka made a CHOICE) to NOT call the clock on her sooner.

She chose to take her time to decide ... THEY chose to NOT call the clock on her sooner.

That's all I meant.

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I read your post thoroughly the first time. It is my impression that you are saying, "Well, it took her a while but it's really someone else's fault for not calling the clock." So, I was wrong about what you meant. Still, to imply that the other players somehow share responsibility for Tiffany Williamson's behavior is ridiculous in my opinion. Just because everyone else at the table (except the cranky pro) was being polite about the situation by trying to accomodate her ridiculous decision-making lags does not mean they somehow share the blame for her taking seven years to throw away a garbage hand to an all-in raise. That woman seemed to be constantly dragging down the pace of the game muttering to herself and pretending to be doing important calculations in her head. I suspect the truth is that she was simply struggling with the common fish's urge to call and trying to extend her face time. This little play seemed to be put on every time Tiffany was in a pot. Some of that is TV editing, I am sure, but the rest of the table should not be expected to call the clock on a player every single time she plays a hand; that wouldn't do much for the hands per hour rate, either. Just because the clock wasn't called on her every single hand does not mean the blame for her behavior is somehow shared among the group. If that was as annoying as it looked on TV, they should all get medals for patience and restraint.

As for the chip count on Raymer (not related to your post, CincyLady, I just saw it mentioned elsewhere): every player has the right to know exactly how much they are calling. I think it is moderately annoying that she insisted on a chip count after being given the exact amount but that's her right. Perhaps she suspected an angle shot, I don't know. The real problem in that scene was that I swear I could almost see her making the "talk to the hand" gesture when Fossilman told her how much he had put in the middle.

I don't think race, gender or WSOP penis envy has much to do with it. I think she just didn't seem very likeable.

SpaceAce

[Python49]

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Dude, she just added three years to the current poker boom.

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[El Ishmael]

I won't go too far into this for fear of being banned from this forum, but I'll just say you're retarded if you don't think the fact that she's black has anything to do with it.

[Edge34]

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I heard that Fossilman is a poster here, is that true? If he is, when was the last time he posted?

Not being facitious here, just curious is all, since a few people have mentioned him here.

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Greg is a longtime poster here, dating well before his win in last year's Main Event. Do a user search, especially in the MTT forum for "Greg (Fossilman)". His posting rate obviously went down after his title win, but he still comes around now and then.

SpaceAce, IMO, any and all 'mistakes' she might of made, if you really think about it, are pretty much consistant with someone who like Tiffany, had only played for a total of 7 months before she entered into the WSOP event.

I know as for myself, there were many, MANY things, that I didn't know until they were explained to me.

I post in the RPG sometimes, under 'Debbie in Ohio' and one of my first posts (and I've been playing poker now for about 2 1/2 years myself, and I know I will always be learning, always trying to find ways to expand my game and my level of play) there, was about my very first time playing poker at a B&M Poker Room, at Caesars Indiana.

I got surprised by someone calling a Blind Straddle, and doing it improperly I later found out, and the dealer being very rude to me, and making me feel very VERY small for asking what a Blind Straddle was (I'd never heard of the term before that time).

What I didn't know as well, was that I could call 'the floor' (yet another term at the time I didn't know about), and it wasn't until someone in the RPG forum told me about it, and how I'd been wronged, that I was able to go back and stand up for myself.

My point here is, that perhaps Tiffany simply didn't know any better, nor did anyone take the time, to take her aside when the Tournement was NOT in session, and explain it to her, either.

I also think that IMO, the very fact that Tiffany is here, and posting (not to mention responding to her detractors with class I might add), shows she DOES want to learn and grow, and become a better player in the future.

As far as my post, one other point I was TRYING to make as well, was that if they Did NOT call the clock on her, NOR explain to her why she shouldn't take so long to make her choice (in a polite, and NON confrontational mannor I might add ... as there is nothing like feeling you're being attacked, and then being expected to accept the advice, that will turn ANYONE off to accepting that advice), then IMO, they shouldn't bitch about her taking so long.

One of the reason why the clock is there, is to help speed things along, for those who perhaps don't know any better.

JMHO, FWIW ....