Why, oh why, are we still in Iraq?

[The once and future king]

Do I have to? It should be intuitevly obvious to anyone with 1/2 a brain cell.

Heres a quicky. Japan had existed for centureis as a sovreing state with a population unified allong ethnic and religous grounds that had a strong idea of what being Japanese ment.

Iraq was created by the imperail powere after WW1. Its borders contain many diferent ethnic groups that have very different ideas about there own identity. A degree of conflict between these groups is inevitable. It was the ifon fist of Suddam that kept this conflict suppressed very much like Tito in the former Yugoslavia.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
Do I have to? It should be intuitevly obvious to anyone with 1/2 a brain cell.

[/ QUOTE ]

What's this attitude all about?

[The once and future king]

simple expaseration at peoples intelectual laziness.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
simple exasperation at peoples intelectual laziness.

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...I can relate to 'exasperation'; we all have bouts of it.

......I also believe that I understand the concept of 'intellectual laziness'.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, so let's not get off on a tangent, but, are you not practicing right here in this string what you say causes you 'exasperation'?

Lehighguy posted a series of questions surrounding what could be similar historical precedents. You summarily dismissed it with ..... [ QUOTE ]
Utterly facile comparision. The differnaces between Japan 1945 and Iraq 2005 are to great and massive to even bother listing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No problem; we are all entitled to our opinions, but when called upon, we should also be able to support them.

For someone who is supposedly working on a PHD, this kind of response is truly disappointing. I would think that at a doctoral level, you would be able to see this and respond more appropriately and directly to the point.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
How long did the U.S. maintain a military presence in Japan after WWII?

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact we still do to this day. But we "occupied" Japan for 9 years.

[Myrtle]

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[ QUOTE ]
How long did the U.S. maintain a military presence in Japan after WWII?

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact we still do to this day. But we "occupied" Japan for 9 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok...Now we're starting to talk.

I am assuming that your "occupied Japan for 9 years" statement means that we (the U.S.) maintained political control of Japan until 1954.

Would it be accurate to say that we accomplished this by defeating them in WWII, and then forcing our form of government upon them via our control of their country by our military presence there?

I'm not attempting to debate the 'right or wrong' of this.....just want to establish a baseline for further discussion.

[Felix_Nietsche]

I'd like to hear valid reasons for STAYING there now.
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The plan is to establish a stable democracy in Iraq.
The next step is for the Iraqis to create and approve a constitution. Meanwhile. coalition forces will stay to help fight the terrorists. This is common knowledge. I'm not sure why you even asked this question. I'd like to see US troops begin coming home beginning with the term of the next Republican president (Hillary has ZERO chance [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]). We can't baby sit the Iraqi govt forever. They need to start killing the terrorists on their own.

In the worst case scenario is the Iraqi govt falls and a civil war errupts. The Sunnis have been murdering large numbers of Shiites and the Shiites are understandibly angry. Since the Shiites out-number the Sunnis 3:1. the Sunnis will have a fight on their hands. The Kurds could gain a lot in an Iraqi civil war. They have an establish paramilatary which is man-for-man is better than anything the Sunnis and Shiites have. They could gain their own nation and perhaps all of Iraq.


Are we going to create permanent stability and democracy throughout the region?
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No, just in Iraq.
If Iraq is successful in prospering under a democratic govt then the HOPE is that other Arabs will want to emulate the success of Iraq. In 10 years it will be interesting to see how this works out. Meanwhile, the coalition forces will continue to aid the fledging Iraqi govt.


Are we going to improve our relationships around the world by staying longer?
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Which countries should the USA improve its relations with?
France/Germany/Russia/etc... have shown their true colors by violating UN sanctions on Iraq and blocking the USA diplomatically whenever they could. If anything, these countries need to improve their relationship with the USA not the other way around. They need the USA more than we need them. With 'friends' like these, who needs enemies!
I could care less if countries hate the USA. Geez, this is not high school where if we're not popular then we won't be elected class president.


Are we going to save lives (American and non-American) by staying there longer?
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No(American)
Yes(Non American)


Are we going to win the war on terror?
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Yes, if we can keep the self-hating Americans from sabotaging the war effort.
Several Democratic politicians have been giving aid and comfort to the enemy with their imflammatory rhetoric (Kennedy/Durbin). These men care more about acquiring power and thwarting Bush43 than protecting the USA. On a Machivallellian note, I'm glad these self-hating Americans are spouting off because they are alienating large numbers of 'moderate' voters which will keep the Democratic kooks from regaining power in the USA.


Are we going to keep the terrorists off our soil?
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No. Not completely. But since 9/11 things have been going well on the home front.

[evil_twin]

[ QUOTE ]
....Please expound further on your opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think he should have to. Comparing Japan post WWII to Iraq post US/UK invasion is plainly stupid.

[hetron]

[ QUOTE ]

Are we going to win the war on terror?
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Yes, if we can keep the self-hating Americans from sabotaging the war effort.
Several Democratic politicians have been giving aid and comfort to the enemy with their imflammatory rhetoric (Kennedy/Durbin). These men care more about acquiring power and thwarting Bush43 than protecting the USA. On a Machivallellian note, I'm glad these self-hating Americans are spouting off because they are alienating large numbers of 'moderate' voters which will keep the Democratic kooks from regaining power in the USA.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you really think that "the enemy" (whoever they are) really gives a flying intercourse about the comments Durbin and Kennedy are making, much less finding "aid and comfort" in their comments, you are the stereotype of every yahoo that the "enemy" wants to throw up as an example of the stupid arrogant selfserving cowboy American in order to recruit more wackos to strap a bomb to their chest and take out a hundred of us.

[Myrtle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
....Please expound further on your opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think he should have to. Comparing Japan post WWII to Iraq post US/UK invasion is plainly stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

....everyone is entitled to an opinion, as are you.

As I said earlier, along with that entitlement comes an obligation to support that opinion.

Please share with us your point of view.