Making the transition from short to deep stack NL

[schwza]

thanks, definitely adding to my favorites.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course QQ,KK,AA, AK are still monsters and you should raise pre-flop and re-raise if you can isolate it down to increase your chances of winning, but if you do this all the time in deep stack you won't make much money and win small pots as most opponents will know your holding and correctly fold (which isn't so much the case with small stack play since the opponent might be pot committed anyways and call you). Sometimes, you can flat call a good raise pre-flop with those hands above for deception and slowly milk your way through the course of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

another way to add deception for your big pairs is to sometimes 3-bet pre-flop with hands likes 68s. it would seem this kind of play is much better in deep stack because you'll have enough stack behind to get paid off well if you hit a straight or flush (rather than in short stack where you're happy to flop a pair + gutshot so you can push the flop).

how often is 3-betting light done against a normal opponent in a 6-max game? am i correct in assuming it should be done with SC-type hands rather than, say, small pairs?

[Borno]

Thanks!!!

Great post. I play in a live 1-2 blinds game with max $200 buy in. I always buy for $100 though. I think I may have to start going for the $200 buy in.

[jonnyUCB]

normal opponent is not a thinking one. Therefore his raises occur when he has TT+. I'd say half the opponents in this range dont even raise AQ AK. Risky play here.. I tried doing this in a night but its a play that really needs tempering (i did it with reckless abandon and ended up losing a couple buyins)

esp in 6-max game where "normal opponent" takes TP to the felt. This is not a bad play, but i'd rather save it for the flop when i know i've got outs up the ass. TOo many hands "normal opponent" will call down with - they will rarely play back so you'll keep chip spewing to them when you miss.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
normal opponent is not a thinking one. Therefore his raises occur when he has TT+. I'd say half the opponents in this range dont even raise AQ AK. Risky play here.. I tried doing this in a night but its a play that really needs tempering (i did it with reckless abandon and ended up losing a couple buyins)

esp in 6-max game where "normal opponent" takes TP to the felt. This is not a bad play, but i'd rather save it for the flop when i know i've got outs up the ass. TOo many hands "normal opponent" will call down with - they will rarely play back so you'll keep chip spewing to them when you miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

i meant against an average opponent, not an uber-rock who limps AK/99 in position. for the sake of concreteness, someone who would be happy to open raise a hand like KJo from the button.

[jonnyUCB]

I think the most important aspect when deciding to make this play is the likelihood your opponent will lay his hand down. If opponent will always call your pf 3-bet, will he lay down to a flop bet? You're going to be put in a nasty situation if he thinks JK is good on a J high flop when you're drawing to no outs. Some targets, myself included, laydown JK to a reraise even with position (i assume i'm dominated): this play works better against this type of player.

Overall though I don't see this play winning many big pots; its usually win small pot/lose big one situation.

[joewatch]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents -
I have a decent amount of experience playing deepstack since I have been playing on Absolute Poker $1BB for the last 2 weeks where max buy-in is 200xBB. Most of the players usually buy-in for only 100.

The biggest difference I think you will see is that you are rarely all-in, whereas you are often putting your shorter stack opponents all-in. This usually doesn't occur until the turn.

As a consequence, your bankroll will see much less variance. It is easy to grind out 10-20 BB/100 and implied odds go way up. My 2 biggest wins were:

Villain was a solid player, but willing to go all-in with top 2 pair
Hero in BB with KK
Villain in MP with AK
Flop 55K Turn A River blank
Result - Hero wins pot 500BB

Villain was a loose-aggressive player, moderately successful
Hero in SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villain in MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Flop A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Turn J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
River 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Result - Hero wins pot 400BB

How do you like those implied odds?
[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[trojanFan]

sorry, this may seem like a rookie question (there are no dumb questions, only dumb people) but i'll fire it out anyway....

why would anyone buy in for less than the max number of chips? don't you want to have as much ammo as possible for when you hit a monster and get doubled up?

likewise, when your stack is depleted say, 50% -ish, isn't is smart to re-load to the max? in my (admitedly) limited experience on party, i rarely see players do this.
thanks!

[burningyen]

Very nice post, Lawrence! I would tweak this statement slightly as highlighted in bold:

[ QUOTE ]
The general rule here is that if you call a raise with either a pocket pair or suited connector, do so if it will cost you 5% to no more than 10% of your stack or of the next largest of your opponents' stacks if you have your opponents covered.

[/ QUOTE ]

[burningyen]

According to Sklansky buying in short can sometimes cause your opponents to make mistakes with respect to playing small-stack poker (e.g. lower implied odds). But I think a lot of people don't reload or buy in for the max only because they're meek and want to limit their exposure. I've built up enough confidence about where I stand relative to the stakes that I play that I always buy in for the max and reload a la Spirit Rock, assuming there are other worthwhile stacks at the table.

[schwza]

i started a thread with a title like "small stack = advantage?" a lot of the big names on the forum weighed in. it was pretty inconclusive, with most saying you should always buy to the max but a number of very highly respected posters saying it can be an advantage to be short.