Long Shot Players ? - Page 2

KaiShin · #11 03-28-2005, 02:13 PM

I think I would raise PF in this position.

CO was fine limping in with 96s after two other limpers. Loose, but not way out of line. (I wouldn't personally [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img])

davelin · #12 03-28-2005, 02:14 PM

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BTW, does anyone here 3-bet the turn with the two pair (Hero)? Also, what about betting out on the river with the two pair?

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I like 3bet the turn. Lead river if called,check if capped.

By the way, (as one of the newer players) I see the point of how CO played postflop, but I would have auto-mucked 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] preflop. Is that a mistake with enough limpers?

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I think the circumstances where limping in with 96s is a profitable play are pretty rare, so not a huge leak if you fold it all the time. I'd limp with it if I had the button (or knew I would get it) with a bunch of limpers (like maybe 4-5).

I'd limp more liberally with 98s and 97s

GrunchCan · #13 03-28-2005, 02:16 PM

Open AJo PF for a raise. If you can't open AJo PF for a raise, well... YOU CAN. This isn't even close. Openlimp with AJo is bad.

The play of the hand otherwise was OK, but I go for a CR on the turn.

TripleH68 · #14 03-28-2005, 02:21 PM

Think of how this hand plays out if hero raises preflop.

In the CO's spot I'd just bet the river and get paid.

atnels · #15 03-28-2005, 02:22 PM

Would you open raise AJo UTG or UTG+1?

Second, I have a general "philosophy" question, using this hand as an example. Let's say everything's the same, but you somehow knew you were up two players, one with a flush draw and the other an open-ended straight draw. Are you happy about the flop being capped?

GrunchCan · #16 03-28-2005, 02:26 PM

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Would you open raise AJo UTG or UTG+1?

Second, I have a general "philosophy" question, using this hand as an example. Let's say everything's the same, but you somehow knew you were up two players, one with a flush draw and the other an open-ended straight draw. Are you happy about the flop being capped?

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With AJo/s, I'll put the first raise in close to 100% of the time. I can't think of any situations where I wouldn't, off the top of my head. This includes opening UTG, or on the button after several limpers.

If I somehow know that there's a FD and an OESD out against me - and that's all - then I'm happy as a pig in cold [censored] that the flop was capped. I have close to 50% equity in this pot, which is a HUGE edge. Every bet that goes in are Sklansky Bucks in my pocket.

UncleSalty · #17 03-28-2005, 03:28 PM

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Besides the pre-flop call, he played it fine. Maybe raise the flop the first time but the cap on the flop was right. Maybe it's good for newer players to see why his play is correct.

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I assume the flop cap is correct because he believes he has 14 outs. (9 to the flush, 5 to 2 pair or trips.) He actually only has 12, which means HU he doesn't have the equity edge he thinks he has. However, if you believe your 14 outs are good, you have better than 1:1 odds on the flop to make your hand, so every extra bet is +EV even against a lone opponent.

Correct?

davelin · #18 03-28-2005, 03:42 PM

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Besides the pre-flop call, he played it fine. Maybe raise the flop the first time but the cap on the flop was right. Maybe it's good for newer players to see why his play is correct.

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I assume the flop cap is correct because he believes he has 14 outs. (9 to the flush, 5 to 2 pair or trips.) He actually only has 12, which means HU he doesn't have the equity edge he thinks he has. However, if you believe your 14 outs are good, you have better than 1:1 odds on the flop to make your hand, so every extra bet is +EV even against a lone opponent.

Correct?

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You can argue the merits of a cap if it's HU. But Villain knows that it will probably be 3-way going to the turn so it's right for him to cap.

UncleSalty · #19 03-28-2005, 03:47 PM

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You can argue the merits of a cap if it's HU. But Villain knows that it will probably be 3-way going to the turn so it's right for him to cap.

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Good point, I hadn't considered the very likely 3rd caller. In that case he's got an equity edge with the flush draw alone. With 12 definite outs the cap is a no-brainer.