PP 100-200 QQ hand.

[flawless_victory]

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(a) JJ is more likely to check the river than KK


[/ QUOTE ]i dont think this can be stressed enough. IMO KK will almost never check the river here. KK will bet almost 100%.
the question is whether valuebetting is worth the possibility you will be CRed by AK. id check AK on the riv in this game almost every single time.
in this hand id bet and fold if i got checkraised. it would be a really sophisticated but wierd play to CR JJ on the riv here.. i dont ever see this.

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you make good points and silly ones.

if you c'r the river here "almost every single time" in a game like this you lose value, become predictable, and give away information.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]well, i guess what id do is not really relevant to this hand so i shouldnt have even mentioned it.
i am a big river checker when i OOP and HU in LHE on the river. BC most internet players are so aggro, im often able to checkraise, but i checkcall the river alotalot. like too much. im actually working on betting the riv more often (as a bluff) and checkfolding more often with a hand with showdown value when i think i must be beat.

[STG]

Is it that important for 1 SB, or is it more important to get a read on what he has. At this point we can't figure out his hand?

[catlover]

Interesting hand.

I think that until the river, your play is standard and definitely correct.

On the river, I think you should check behind. It is close, but the way I see it, his preflop capping range is AA-JJ, plus some Ax hands. JJ may not even cap preflop. As you are losing to most of his preflop capping range, you should check.

It is true his river check looks a lot like JJ. But then again his preflop cap looks a lot like QQ or better, or Ax.

I just don't see the single check as being enough evidence top bet a hand that is near the bottom of his range of hands, based on the preflop action.

If he capped it with 99 or whatever, so be it.

[ggbman]

In the games i play in, i never like to put myself in a situation where i should fold a very showdownable hand. However, to beat these game, i'm guessing you will have to do this a lot more to make marginal value bets like this one. I hate to say, but betting and folding to c/r seems good to me, he really shouldn't be check-raising with a hand worse than yours very often.

Gabe

[mmcd]

he really shouldn't be check-raising with a hand worse than yours very often.

I think when TSP calls, calls, and then bets the river when checked to on this board, his hand is pretty well defined. I wouldn't completely discount the possibility of a worse pair checkraising the river. It's the only way it can win once TSP calls the turn.

[URMeowed]

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Is it that important for 1 SB, or is it more important to get a read on what he has.

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How is raising the flop going to give you a better read on what he has? I agree with going passive and making sure there is one bet on every street, whether it's the preflop capper putting the bet in or yourself.

Meow.

[Steve Giufre]

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Is it that important for 1 SB, or is it more important to get a read on what he has. At this point we can't figure out his hand?

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Nightwish is right, raising the flop is pretty horrible. You should just take his word for it and not every do it next time you are in this spot. The problem is that he will almost never clearly identify his hand for you when yuo raise the flop, and at the same time you let him get away from a worse hand very easily. On the river I think its real close but I think its a bet. The thing that swings me is the fact that I dont just buy the fact he has KK here. The good players in this game almost always value bet two kings in that spot. I do think there is a decent chance he has AK and is gonna CR the river, but I also think he is definitely paying off with JJ 1010 and I dont want to miss a bet. I guess you could really flip a coin here, but if i didnt have one I would bet.

[arod15]

I check if he bets only a hand he beats will fold if the guy calls he will probably have KK or a weak A

[andyfox]

Anybody like raising the turn?

[Steve Giufre]

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I check if he bets only a hand he beats will fold if the guy calls he will probably have KK or a weak A

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Its not that easy to lay down 99 1010 JJ for one bet in a pot that has almost 2k in it.