KJo 4-handed

[Redd]

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if you call the turn, you're calling the river.

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This isn't necessarily true here. We can call entirely on our flush outs here even if we have a zero % chance of being ahead on the turn.

[callydrias]

[ QUOTE ]
[Pistol dude we know you called because the final pot is 2BB bigger than the river pot. Edit next time! keep us under suspense.

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Busted! [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I called because I had seen some laggy play on the table recently and was used to people showing down KT and JJ-type hands here. I misapplied that to the new guy here and got shown the A.

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
if you call the turn, you're calling the river.

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No we missed our flush.

If K was top pair, call. But i think this is a simple fold.

[car ramrod]

do some of you guys really think this is an easy call on the river. I usually fold here. Buttons play looks really strong taking into account there are 3 people in the hand.
I will call the turn b/c of our flush draw, but I most likely fold this river. Not sure why you guys are calling here.

[jkstay]

I know the OP's question was about the river, but I have a questions about the turn play. What does everyone think of check/calling the turn?

Getting raised on the turn sucks since there's no way we can fold after picking up a flush draw (not to mention having 2nd pair and a straight draw that could be good if nobody has a flush already), and this looks like a good spot for someone to raise or c/r (either with a made flush or as a semi-bluff). When I'm in this type of spot on the turn, I'll just check call (even after being the aggressor preflop and on the flop). Is this too weak tight?

[Cancuk]

fold

[Cancuk]

[ QUOTE ]

Other than that you cannot fold this against an unknown.

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I think it's a pretty easy fold. What do you beat? Kx? If he's bluffing, he's an idiot and you'll get his money soon enough.

[callydrias]

So the flop bet with a gutshot and K-high was okay, but the turn bet with made 2nd pair and tons of redraws is bad?

[jkstay]

I'm only thinking the turn bet is bad because you'd hate to get raised since you can't fold with your made 2nd pair and redraws. And once you get 2 callers on the flop, it seems like you very well could be up against a flush draw and/or an ace, which makes a turn bet even scarier to me.

I'd read on these boards a while ago that if you have a decent hand on the turn and can't fold to a c/r (such as when you have 2nd pair and pick up a flush draw), then you should just check/call (likewise, if you have a mediocre hand that you could fold to a c/r, then you should go ahead and bet/fold to a raise). I may be misapplying that concept, which is why I wanted to post this question about this hand.

[callydrias]

The thing here is that there's no indication that the button will bet. It's much worse to give a free card to this draw-heavy board and miss a bet when you're ahead than to have to call a raise.