Coordinated board and lots of action...would you call this turn? - Page 2

lautzutao · #11 09-04-2005, 07:37 PM

I'm not overvaluing my draw. I'm evaluating my 2 pair AND a draw to a 1 card straight and a full house. Is it better that I just call down? No way I'm folding this hand here with players behind, and I think calling is too weak here. Is it better that I call and let 2 behind me call as well and rip off their miracle card, or try to improve my equity?

milesdyson · #12 09-04-2005, 07:41 PM

hey dude, you have to look at what happened in this hand.

utg check called two bets on the flop and is now leading into the field when the draw completing 6 hits the turn. what do you think he has that you should raise against? you never have the best hand here.

edit in responce to your edit: therefore by raising and knocking others out you are getting the field closer to [you] and [a better hand]. since you are still drawing, you want people to be staying in. you are not doing your equity any good by raising against a better hand.

lautzutao · #13 09-04-2005, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hey dude, you have to look at what happened in this hand.

utg check called two bets on the flop and is now leading into the field when the draw completing 6 hits the turn. what do you think he has that you should raise against? you never have the best hand here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that I am behind to UTG, but what about the other 2 players? I'm not talking about winning the hand outright, I'm talking about increasing my chances of winning.

What did UTG hit here with an 8 falling? He might have had a pair of 8's and I'm drawing dead already. He also could have drawn to a straight, which I can still draw out on with a better straight(if he hit the low end) or a full house if I spike a 6 or a 7. Why not try to increase the chances of that occuring by eliminating other players that might be drawing as well?

milesdyson · #14 09-04-2005, 07:51 PM

utg has 66 or 98 usually when he plays the hand like this.

also think about what you're saying.

[ QUOTE ]
He also could have drawn to a straight, which I can still draw out on with a better straight(if he hit the low end) or a full house if I spike a 6 or a 7. Why not try to increase the chances of that occuring by eliminating other players that might be drawing as well?

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if you're already admitting you need to outdraw UTG and there's only one card to come... you either outdraw him and win the hand, or you don't outdraw him and you lose the hand. your hope is that you can get other players to pay behind you as you attempt to outdraw UTG. the only thing that changes with them out of the pot is that the pot size is smaller when you do outdraw...

Shillx · #15 09-04-2005, 07:52 PM

Why did you bet the flop? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

milesdyson · #16 09-04-2005, 07:54 PM

oesduh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

it is true, 6 handed makes a flop bet a sad proposition.

Shillx · #17 09-04-2005, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
oesduh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Hell yeah make the pot 15 SB and I'd bet the flop with a LAG behind me. Not when it is 6 SB.

numeri · #18 09-04-2005, 07:56 PM

I wouldn't play this pre-flop, but I know some would. On the flop, I know you feel like you have the nice OESD and BDFD, but the board is paired. I think betting the flop is a mistake. And the turn card actually hurts you instead of giving you more outs. I might call the bet from UTG, but certainly not 2 more to me.

lautzutao · #19 09-04-2005, 07:58 PM

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Why did you bet the flop? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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*EDIT* As for the flop bet, I made it specifically BECAUSE I knew the LAG would raise. If he had any piece of this board, he'd raise and possibly push out the other players, allowing me to go heads up against a loose player with a very strong drawing hand and his belief that I've been playing fairly tight at the table. How could he possibly put me on 86s? My implied odds against him heads up are potentially staggering.

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lautzutao · #20 09-04-2005, 08:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
oesduh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

it is true, 6 handed makes a flop bet a sad proposition.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have more than an OESD here. I have a backdoor flush draw and 2 live cards for 2 pair. Giving myself 1.5 outs for my flush draw, and maybe 1 out conservatively for hitting 2 pair with a crappy kicker, I have 11 outs. If I can get the LAG heads-up(which I thought I could do) I like my chances. Even if people call behind with THEIR OESD or gutshots or overcards they are calling incorrectly yes?